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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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I was, just now, prompted to link to an earlier thread.

I notice one of my proposals was for £10 for 30 mins charging.

People found that hilarious. Not just this thread, in several threads, I started off at £5 per half hour of charge, which was roundly laughed at, so when I suggested it might actually end up as £10 for half hour, well, that just set everyone laughing their balls off.


So, tell me, people .... how much does it cost to charge for 30 mins at 50kW with your >60kWh somethingorother at 35p/kWh?

How much will it cost at 150kW?
 

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evezy referral code d6540
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I guess if you post often enough (27k) and for long enough (5 years), you’ll eventually get something correct. Well done that man! ;)
 

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Assuming a flat unthrottled charging curve £8.75 for the 'leccy plus a connection charge. I don't know where I'll put it all in my LEAF30. :unsure:
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Discussion Starter #6
Assuming a flat unthrottled charging curve £8.75 for the 'leccy plus a connection charge. I don't know where I'll put it all in my LEAF30. :unsure:
You might like to consider some of the detail.

£10 per half hour, but with an annual cap.

The idea being that small time users (once a year for a holiday, sort of thing) should pay more proportionately as a contribution to the infrastructure, but if you use it enough then the 'amortised' cost will be lower than that.

5 years later and I wouldn't change a word of my 2015 proposal.
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Discussion Starter #7
@donald is always correct. He’s just waiting for history to catch up with him.
I can't argue with that, many a true word spoken in jest.

Happy to see contrary examples ... @E7EV ?

When I am wrong, which does happen occasionally TBH, I freely admit it.
 

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evezy referral code d6540
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You might like to consider some of the detail.

£10 per half hour, but with an annual cap.

The idea being that small time users (once a year for a holiday, sort of thing) should pay more proportionately as a contribution to the infrastructure, but if you use it enough then the 'amortised' cost will be lower than that.

5 years later and I wouldn't change a word of my 2015 proposal.
623AA6B3-FDF7-4C74-B0F6-A2CB68BA9385.png

This is kind of what you’re suggesting.
To access the Polar Plus rates, you pay a subscription of £8 per month.
To get the Instant rates you pay a one off £1.20 connection fee.
Contactless rates normally have no connection fee, but could have a minimum charge.
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Discussion Starter #9
This is kind of what you’re suggesting.
No, not really.

I an suggesting that the charge is high for the first few charges, to cover the cost of the infrastructure and to dissuade PHEVers and such from using rapids unless they really have to, and then it is capped at-cost once the user has had so-many-charges.

Flat rate, £10 for any part of 30 mins.

I'd be inclined to set it at £15 or £20 now, especially for 150kW chargers.

I am not suggesting a p/kWh. I am suggesting the 'Polar' opposite (pun! ;) )
 

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Flat rate on its own can be tricky for those of us who dont actually need the full 30minutes. But i dont really have a problem with a time based charge in general so long as its prorata and sensibly equivalent to a price/kwh while running at full power. Infact, it has certain benefits, such as discouraging those hogging the charger or using it poorly (EG rapid AC into a 3kw PHEV).

30p/kwh at ~45kW is roughly 22p a minute on a typical rapid. I wouldnt have an issue paying 22p a minute on a rapid to charge the LEAF. 33p a minute/£10 per 30mins is starting to feel a bit expensive, but still probably just about okay. However paying £10 when i only need a quick 5 minute stop is clearly shit.

Time based also helps "encourage" folk to leave as the charge rate drops off. Instead of slowly dribbling all the way up to 98% as some might do, the fact its getting more and more expensive during that period will hopefully help move people on.
 

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MG EZS 2020
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After reading what @Aragorn has said, I am coming round to the idea of timed charging at fair rate to charge. I think it should be by the minute as you will get the, 'I've paid for half an hour and it's mine until then', people who would carry on regardless of the fact that there drawing only a few kW.
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Discussion Starter #12
Flat rate on its own can be tricky for those of us who dont actually need the full 30minutes. But i dont really have a problem with a time based charge in general so long as its prorata and sensibly equivalent to a price/kwh while running at full power.
You're missing the point of my proposal then.

A charging infrastructure has a 'value' to those who may only use it once or a few times. They should pay a fair rate for that 'value' of the installed capital, and my proposal is that they do so via the fixed rate, up to a limiting value.

The alternative is just to apply the charge to everyone as a 'road tax' as such, that directly funds the national charging infrastructure and thereafter one only pays cost value (plus a small regulated margin, perhaps) for the actual electricity.

But I am a free marketeer, and people should be allowed alternatives if they don't want to support the infrastructure cost.
 

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I initially thought as a new EV owner that some public chargers were too expensive then watched the EVM video about Ionity. After his explanation it did make more sense that you should pay more for a better/faster delivery of the product/electricity. Thankfully most of us will charge at home but for the occasional public use then perhaps we should pay IF the chargers deliver at quoted speed. However, 69p/kWh can result in 500 miles being only a bit cheaper than fuel!
 

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thereafter one only pays cost value (plus a small regulated margin, perhaps) for the actual electricity.
After I wrote my bit above, I was wondering. I know VAT is low (5%?) on electricity, but if they charged by time would that be liable to a higher rate VAT?
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Discussion Starter #16
After I wrote my bit above, I was wondering. I know VAT is low (5%?) on electricity, but if they charged by time would that be liable to a higher rate VAT?
Yes and no, you can give something away as part of a 'deal' and not be charged VAT on that, but you would be charged VAT on the whole (service). If HMRC thinks you are pulling a fast-one, somehow, then it will intercede and everyone will be worse off for it, so I think the point is 'don't take the p!ss'.
 
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