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Sorry to hijack the thread.

Here's more of section 722.411.4.1 of BS7671 (the install regs).

Basically, for EVSE installs that fall into 722.411.4.1 including your domestic 3 phase setup (and most commercial) The typical industry solutions are:

- Install an upstream protection device such as this:

or

- TT Island the EVSE (Earth rod)

or

- Install an EVSE that complies with indents (iii) or (v). myenergi Zappi and Indra Smart PRO are the only ones I am aware of that meet this.

Afraid it appears yours isn't meeting any of those 5 indents (iv isnt correct as you have 3 phase) so install appears to be non compliant.

This is a good explainer if of interest:



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Thanks I watched video I think I have a better understanding of it now. I can see the point you are making.


Talked about in some depth here.

Suggests Pod Point is compliant without earth rod btw. On the basis it will monitor and regulate accordingly (presumably using sense clamp)

It discusses sense clamp with chargers to regulate (which it has)

Also discusses some properties not suitable for correct implementation whatever that means implications wise.

This guy who fitted it seemed to know his stuff he was saying he did a lot of commercial installation work traffic lights etc. I would be surprised if he has done something that is not compliant pod Point are a big installer so massive can of worms .

There is a lot of pics and documentary evidence on the installation so bad for installer and pod Point if it's not been done correctly. I know electricians are part of a professional highly regulated body so serious implications. I have a lot of come back !

Initial thoughts It would actually be easy to fit an earth rod and pretty inexpensive. I could just tell them to do this. I don't like the idea of earth rods though personally.

Also in the video it talks about phases being In balance. Obviously they never are in balance but all three phases service my property only. It's not like the video where it's talking about phases being shared over a number of properties.

Also in the video it specifies the current never exceeding 70 on the phase charger is installed on as the threshold for pen protection requirement I think

Being on the phase with no load other than the charger (led lighting only really) I can safely say it will never exceed or get anywhere this even with the charger running.

All of this is predicated on the charger actually being damaged and the operator being exposed to a metal component !

So in summary as far as I can see there is pretty much close to zero risk. I am.not convinced the installation is non compliant on the basis :

- Pod Point install seems to be compliant if sense clamp fitted and can regulate it's we lf. It does not require an earth rod according to the installation guide I found.

- The phase the charger is on will.never reach the load threshold required for pen protection.

However I have a friend who is an electrician, he's very experienced I will have him inspect it and see what he thinks.

Anyway thanks for the information facsinating stuff !
 

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No prob. Awareness is key here, hence me posting publically.

My team train quality supervisors and installers for multiple install companies and develop hardware and software solutions for multiple manufacturers so we understand this area pretty well.

Just FYI the sense clamp is for load curtailment which is basically a feature to derate the charger when the property is under high load to protect your DNO fuse. It's not anything to do with PEN fault protection.

Its up to you what you do with the info I've shared but in my view, with what I can see, its not compliant.

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No I appreciate your feedback. It certainly sounds like you know this area. Watching that video it says if the charger monitors the phase and keeps power below a certain threshold it's compliant is that where the sense clamp comes in ?

What would you suggest I do in the circumstances ?

I had to submit pics as part of application and he had to take pictures to document the install. Surely this is so someone can check it's compliant or to cover their backs if something like this is raised ?
 

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Have my zappi installed, set to 80A grid limit and the rest of the house has fairly low electric usage. No electric shower, no electric hob, no electric water heating (all gas).

Seems to me like 80A is fine - but I contacted the DNO just to check in case it was a free upgrade. most of that cost is labour, quoting £166 for three hours (plus VAT)

My initial thinking is to just leave it as-is.
Ask your supplier to fit a smart meter, then ask the Dino to also install the isolator and 100A fuse At the same time.
then switch to octopus !
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Ask your supplier to fit a smart meter, then ask the Dino to also install the isolator and 100A fuse At the same time.
then switch to octopus !
I have an older smart meter already from scottish power - elster AS300P which in theory is updatable. I assume that they updated to 80A at the time as the tails etc all look updated. No isolator though. I’m switching to octopus on Tuesday so will get a request in asap for either hooking up to my current meter or getting a new one installed.
 

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The Elster (Honeywell) AS300P is a SMETS1 meters - check with Octopus if that is OK, they may want to change it to a SMETS2 meter.

BUT to your origional question... a Zappi with a CT clamp will manage the power so you never go over 80Amps. It will adjust so at night you can pull 32A chaging on the car and in the day when other appliances are on, it will regulate the car (if you charge in the day) so the house has priority and it will throttle the car charging down if required.

Personally this is the easiest solution for you as the DNO isnt involved, it is just a simple EV charge point installation.

@ about 50 mins, he shows the ct clamp and explains he sets the zappi to 90A so it doesnt blow the fuse. (there is another video he has where he goes into more detail but I cant find it right now)

general tips about the choice of charger.
 

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No prob. Awareness is key here, hence me posting publically.

My team train quality supervisors and installers for multiple install companies and develop hardware and software solutions for multiple manufacturers so we understand this area pretty well.

Just FYI the sense clamp is for load curtailment which is basically a feature to derate the charger when the property is under high load to protect your DNO fuse. It's not anything to do with PEN fault protection.

Its up to you what you do with the info I've shared but in my view, with what I can see, its not compliant.

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According to this Pod Points are compliant with the 2020 amendment and meet the PEN requirement you mentioned. They don't require an earth rod.
 

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According to this Pod Points are compliant with the 2020 amendment and meet the PEN requirement you mentioned. They don't require an earth rod.
That link quotes indent iv which only covers single phase properties.

Indent iv is not compliant on 3 phase properties.

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