Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

1 - 20 of 61 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Seems as though the £6000 scrapage scheme has been dropped.
i was banking on that to make going electric viable. As a single car household a car with decent range / rapid charging was essential. I may have to just wait a few more years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,919 Posts
Article mentions several reasons it's probably not happening, and I can think of other cons. E.g. Aside from the Leaf I don't think any (mass produced) EVs are built in the UK, so in effect it would be sending most of that money out of the UK.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
454 Posts
It was never more than a rumour that first surfaced in The Telegraph a few weeks ago anyway. No one knows if it was even on the government’s mind.

Incidentally, Autoexpress aren’t exactly the most reliable source either. Basically the Daily Star of the motoring press.

Another story in the ‘graph on Friday suggests Mr Sunak has told Ministers he’s no intention of reducing VAT.

His fiscal stimulus plan was supposed to be announced next week. Now it’s supposedly been pushed back by at least a week as he’s hanging on the results of the reopening of pubs and hairdressers etc next Saturday.

Their “suck it and see” approach to COVID-19 extends to finance as well as to public health then....

Rishi Sunak signals he's not about to cut VAT as incomes are in 'good shape'
 

·
Premium Member
VW ID.3 Worst Edition
Joined
·
4,294 Posts
With due apologies to the OP, I’m quite pleased if the whole thing gets canned.

i think grants/schemes like this ultimately benefit the manufacturers and those who can well afford an EV anyway. The fact that the UK don’t really have an EV industry and as stated the money would be flowing out of the country is another factor. It’s one thing individuals choosing to spend their money outside of the UK, quite another for a government to effectively give it away.

There are probably better ways to spend a large sum of public money right now, and still encourage people over to EVs.

Lets face it, even with a scrappage scheme and the grant, you’ll still be a good £20k+ short for anything family sized with decent range.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,458 Posts
It was always "fake news" and never going to happen - IMO! The people who thought it would be £9K off in total presumably still believe in Santa and the Tooth Fairy!

The government might have offered a bit more over the £3K PICG but would have expected at least £2K from manufacturers. Many can sell enough EVs without doing that, so probably told them to bog off. Most don't have that sort of margin to give away - especially with current exchange rates.

Ultimately the government needs more money, not less. Be interesting to see how they stimulate the economy yet also increase revenue. A difficult circle to square...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
494 Posts
We could hear something next Tuesday, the PM is going to announce a restart to the country to create jobs.

We will hear about the infrastructure of the roads this I feel will include charging for electric car.

Will there be other incentive for the car buying public? We will have to wait until then!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
With due apologies to the OP, I’m quite pleased if the whole thing gets canned.

i think grants/schemes like this ultimately benefit the manufacturers and those who can well afford an EV anyway. The fact that the UK don’t really have an EV industry and as stated the money would be flowing out of the country is another factor. It’s one thing individuals choosing to spend their money outside of the UK, quite another for a government to effectively give it away.

There are probably better ways to spend a large sum of public money right now, and still encourage people over to EVs.

Lets face it, even with a scrappage scheme and the grant, you’ll still be a good £20k+ short for anything family sized with decent range.
I see where you are coming from. It is wrong that EV grants should only benefit the rich that can afford the capital outlay and then recoup the benefits of low VED and fuel costs. Also, increasing cost of ownership of ICE cars to force people to move to EVs again hits the less well off.

I feel in a strange position, probably like many other. I'm a single car household wanting to go Green with a limited budget, but willing to make a sacrifice to help reduce carbon emissions. The current crop of Leaf's etc do not really have the range or charging speeds to satisfy the needs as a single car household - although great for families wealthy enough to have a second car for commuting.

So, I'm looking for an EV with decent range and quick charging for long trips, holidays, etc. Performance is not an issue. Never having bought a new car before this would be very big long term investment. Perhaps EV incentives should only be for "normal" EVs and exclude luxury/performance EVs over a certain price.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,458 Posts
We will hear about the infrastructure of the roads this I feel will include charging for electric car.
He will no doubt announce the "millions for car charging" that has already been announced at least twice.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,458 Posts
Perhaps EV incentives should only be for "normal" EVs and exclude luxury/performance EVs over a certain price
They already are. There is no PICG on cars over £50K list which makes gap from Model 3 LR to Performance a lot bigger in UK. Many buy LR and pay for performance boost.

I suspect you are suggesting lower but ever a Kona EV in decent spec is over £40K list so where do you set it? The idea is to get £40K cars sold to those who can afford them (eg company and salary sacrifice) so there are (hopefully) £20K used EVs available in a few years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,968 Posts
A BEV purchase grant is just a gift to the already wealthy and inflates prices.

Sorting out public charging is not a guarantee to putting more BEVs on the road.You might get more 'rapid' charging hybrids instead of pure BEVs by sorting out during journey charging.

Since fuel prices are now low putting up fossil fuel duty would be sensible as that would provide the govt with revenue and it is not a regressive tax especially if one was to remove the 'green tax' from electricity and apply it to fossil fuel instead. The poorest still need electricity but not all need to buy fuel on a filling station forecourt.

All new build homes to have three phase power to the allocated parking and a big program of on street charging for existing properties. Car parks to have 22 kW available for most bays and arranged so it is easier to find an empty parking bay for a BEV than for an ICE.

The auto industry will make BEVs affordable when they really want to as the Chinese are already starting to demonstrate to the rest of the world.

The UK does not have a large traditional ICE auto industry to lose but we do have the skills base to design the future of personal transport. That should make us more agile if we can attract investment. Key is to have at least two large battery plants close to ports in the UK that make energy storage batteries as well as traction batteries for vehicles. The technology for batteries and computing breaks traditionally separate manufacturing industries out of their silos.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,929 Posts
A BEV purchase grant is just a gift to the already wealthy and inflates prices.
and perversely deflates prices in the secondhand market.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,968 Posts
Not sure that second hand prices can be so linked to the grant. Secondhand BEVs were just too expensive to have much demand until folk worked out that a second hand BEV with limited range is fine as a second car for local only work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
950 Posts
A scrappage scheme would remove a lot of the older vehicles from the road that require far more servicing and repairs than a new EV, so that £6000 would support a few new car dealers whilst the majority of it would go abroad while reducing the size of the servicing industry.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,929 Posts
Not sure that second hand prices can be so linked to the grant. Secondhand BEVs were just too expensive to have much demand until folk worked out that a second hand BEV with limited range is fine as a second car for local only work.
Maybe not for the older ones, but for someone with a say 2 YO Zoe which is currently showing little depreciation from new would suffer considerably if the new cars came down in price by £6k. In theory this risk exists from the aggressive pricing promised by VW with the ID3, but in reality that has yet to be proven.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
447 Posts
Pleased to hear it is not going ahead. They should stop all grants for electric cars. If they want to spend money it should be on sorting out the dogs breakfast that is the uk charging infrastructure.
It sure is.
I had someone trying to tell me that drivers need to understand the bigger picture......no, we just want to charge up and go....the bigger picture needs to be as frictionless and transparent as it is to fill up with petrol (and where the law demands a huge sign with the price per litre so you can tell if it’s competitive up front).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,968 Posts
Maybe not for the older ones, but for someone with a say 2 YO Zoe which is currently showing little depreciation from new would suffer considerably if the new cars came down in price by £6k. In theory this risk exists from the aggressive pricing promised by VW with the ID3, but in reality that has yet to be proven.
Not sure that the conventional view of the secondhand ICE car market is accurate when applied to BEVs. Of course orginal price has a part to play. But for BEVs secondhand prices are more strongly controlled by supply and demand than original purchase price in the ICE market. Both affordablity and very limited availability of BEVs are much stronger drivers than for the mature and much larger ICE secondhand market.
Paid £15k for an ex-demo LEAF in 2014. Sold it three years later as the secondhand prices started to sharply rise. Should have waited another couple of years to have sold the car for same amount but came out OK as one traded up to a then two year old i3 (scrapping the old ICE that did the trips the LEAF could not do) and have enjoyed very low deprecation since secondhand prices continue to rise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,672 Posts
I think the money would be a lot better spent on getting 33kv grid connections into most moterway service with legal changes to make the process faster and a requirement that the operator provides enough land to at least two different charging networks to premict each network to install 32 chargers.

The existing company car tax rules are enough to greatly increase the surplay of 2nd hand EV in 3 years time.

EV buses and dustcarts should also be funded with a requirement they are made in the UK. (now legal as we have left EU)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,975 Posts
I can't see Dominic Cummings authorising anything that adds a regulatory burden to house building. Quite the opposite, in fact.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,968 Posts
I see where you are coming from. It is wrong that EV grants should only benefit the rich that can afford the capital outlay and then recoup the benefits of low VED and fuel costs. Also, increasing cost of ownership of ICE cars to force people to move to EVs again hits the less well off.

I feel in a strange position, probably like many other. I'm a single car household wanting to go Green with a limited budget, but willing to make a sacrifice to help reduce carbon emissions. The current crop of Leaf's etc do not really have the range or charging speeds to satisfy the needs as a single car household - although great for families wealthy enough to have a second car for commuting.

So, I'm looking for an EV with decent range and quick charging for long trips, holidays, etc. Performance is not an issue. Never having bought a new car before this would be very big long term investment. Perhaps EV incentives should only be for "normal" EVs and exclude luxury/performance EVs over a certain price.
Buying a new BEV is not your only option in order to go 'green'. A secondhand BEV on a limited budget can get you a 'greener' car. Unless you do a higher than average annual mileage a new car is heavy on depreciation. If your annual mileage is modest secondhand allows you to consider a more capable car as a long term well maintained keeper.
 
1 - 20 of 61 Posts
Top