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I download the kia soul app and in there is a very short video about the charging at 100kw to 80% in 24 min and 33min at 50kw in the uk, do you think we will get any 100kw chargers in the uk?
 

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I download the kia soul app and in there is a very short video about the charging at 100kw to 80% in 24 min and 33min at 50kw in the uk, do you think we will get any 100kw chargers in the uk?
Yes eventually, though it sounds as though the Soul can't gart to all 100kw, or it starts to ramp down -very- quickly, from the charging times.

200kw is probably a realistic endgame for DC charging, delivering about ten miles a minute. 5 minutes gets you 50 miles, 20 minutes (about what it takes me to go for a pee and buy a cup of tea at a service station) gives you 200 miles, enough for another 2-3 hours of driving by which point another break will be welcome!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
When I change my car I'm not sure what to do as my zoe gets to 99% in 30min, I don't like the idear of only getting 80% in 30min
 

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They are using 22kw signet dual head chargers. Chademo and ccs. We fit the one for their training centre in Nottingham next Wednesday. First think I asked them was 'tell me it's not 100kw ones' luckily they are going for the slower rating. I'll chuck some snaps up when we get it fitted.
I think they have another 7 units for dealerships I believe, keep you posted if we find any info out. Units are wall mounted ones.
Cheers
 

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When I change my car I'm not sure what to do as my zoe gets to 99% in 30min, I don't like the idear of only getting 80% in 30min
The Soul has a bigger battery and thus 80% of the Soul is the same as 99% of the Zoe (roughly).

Granted, brick-like aerodynamics and large size mean that the "miles per hour of charge" is not so great but I'm sure that Kia will come up with a Ceed EV shortly.
 

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When I change my car I'm not sure what to do as my zoe gets to 99% in 30min, I don't like the idear of only getting 80% in 30min
I take it that the Zoe doesn't ramp down the charging rate as the SOC increases?
 

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Yes eventually, though it sounds as though the Soul can't gart to all 100kw, or it starts to ramp down -very- quickly, from the charging times.
200kw is probably a realistic endgame for DC charging, delivering about ten miles a minute. 5 minutes gets you 50 miles, 20 minutes (about what it takes me to go for a pee and buy a cup of tea at a service station) gives you 200 miles, enough for another 2-3 hours of driving by which point another break will be welcome!
I suspect somewhere between 100 kW- 135kW is more likely.

Primarily due to the restrictions of power distribution and cost, the requirements are banded, so going from 100-200 becomes much more expensive.

See the table on page 6:
https://library.ukpowernetworks.co....08-0143+-+Customer+LV+Supplies+Above+100A.pdf
 

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It slows down only a little but 99% is over 100miles
All EVs have a "safety margin" between the absolute battery capacity and what the car says is 100%.

Renault may have a larger margin. That way they don't have to taper off the rapid charge as quickly as Nissan.
 

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See the table on page 6:
Yeah.

Wonder how many of the A road services are on 100A three-phase. 69kVA might be enough for a petrol station and a couple of coffee machines but it wouldn't support adding even one rapid charger.
 

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I suspect somewhere between 100 kW- 135kW is more likely.

Primarily due to the restrictions of power distribution and cost, the requirements are banded, so going from 100-200 becomes much more expensive.

See the table on page 6:
https://library.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/library/en/g81/Design_and_Planning/Planning_and_Design/Documents/EDS 08-0143 - Customer LV Supplies Above 100A.pdf
I think charging hubs (where service stations are now) will end up with about 30 bays each supplying 200kw, so a 6 megawatt connection is needed. That replaces 6 petrol pumps [dwell time being 5 times as long], assuming vehicles have 300-400 miles range. Even if you use battery storage (needing a few megawatt-hours) your connection would need to be a couple of megawatts.
 

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Anything over 1000kVA is going to be expensive. Customer needs to provide a transformer too. A 2MW transformer isn't exactly small.


Not just in the UK either. Looks like the 6-bay supercharger at Harris Ranch needed a transformer. It would be the big grey box behind the white Tesla boxes.

http://evnut.com/images/chargers/tesla_supercharger_harris/130407.010harris.jpg


I've stopped at Harris Ranch many times, but not since the super chargers went in. Decent food if you happen to be there.
 

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Anything over 1000kVA is going to be expensive. Customer needs to provide a transformer too. A 2MW transformer isn't exactly small.


Not just in the UK either. Looks like the 6-bay supercharger at Harris Ranch needed a transformer. It would be the big grey box behind the white Tesla boxes.

http://evnut.com/images/chargers/tesla_supercharger_harris/130407.010harris.jpg


I've stopped at Harris Ranch many times, but not since the super chargers went in. Decent food if you happen to be there.
I never said it wouldn't be expensive, just that I think it will happen :) I have heard it costs a lot to build an underground fuel tank for a petrol station too! :eek:
If we assume those 30 bays have just 25% utilisation it's still 1.5 megawatts, 36mwh a day or 36,000kwh a day. If your gross profit is 30p a kwh you're getting £10,800 a day, roughly the same gross profit as if you're selling 360,000 litres of petrol, about 9,000 fillups.
 

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30p a kWh seems like rather a high profit margin? Assuming they can buy it for 15p per kWh that would mean charging about ... oh ... £9 for a fillup (say £7.50 if people weren't empty - and assumes current battery sizes ).

Do you think that'll be viable, given what happened to ChargeMaster's rapids when they came up with similar pricing?
 

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30p a kWh seems like rather a high profit margin? Assuming they can buy it for 15p per kWh that would mean charging about ... oh ... £9 for a fillup (say £7.50 if people weren't empty - and assumes current battery sizes ).

Do you think that'll be viable, given what happened to ChargeMaster's rapids when they came up with similar pricing?
Sure. A retail price of 30p/kwh would be better but 45p is at the top of acceptable. The important part is the "per kwh". Your £9 scenario would need a Leaf to roll in on turtle and leave at 100%, something I've never done and probably never will. Typically I pull down 10-13kwh if I'm hopping to the next charger 40ish miles away, but might only need to put in 3-4 kwh as a precaution. I do this on the way to Birmingham, it's 63 miles door to door, all on the A14 and M6. I might just make that on one 100% charge but it's iffy, so a 5 min stop at Corley will see me pick about 3kwh. Would I happily pay £1.35 for that reassurance? Sure. Would I pay £7.50....? Maybe, maybe not, but I'd be pissed off about it if I did.
 

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I never said it wouldn't be expensive, just that I think it will happen :) I have heard it costs a lot to build an underground fuel tank for a petrol station too! :eek:
If we assume those 30 bays have just 25% utilisation it's still 1.5 megawatts, 36mwh a day or 36,000kwh a day. If your gross profit is 30p a kwh you're getting £10,800 a day, roughly the same gross profit as if you're selling 360,000 litres of petrol, about 9,000 fillups.
And another dynamic to consider, if it is cheaper than petrol/diesel you are more likely to use the service and they have you potentially for 5 times longer browsing in their shop:eek:.
If it is considerably more expensive, you may never become a captive customer at all or just pick up a few kwh top up in a few minutes and avoid browsing in the shop altogether:D.
 
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