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Discussion Starter #1
This morning on approaching the car the wing mirrors failed to open and pressing the button on either the door or key fob had no effect.
Car had been on charge overnight (rolec) and was fully charged.
Called out green flag who tested the battery first off and it was failing to register a reading. (first EV the guy had ever been out to).
Connected jump pack , unplugged charger cable and car started as normal.
Had a small drive , switched off and on again with no problems.
This evening its dead again so I'm guessing a new 12v battery is required.
Car is 30 months old with 55000 miles and a 30kw.
Any particular type of battery I should go for? Current battery is 45 ah and 450 (I think) cca.
Should I opt for more ah and pay little or no regard to cranking amps as it doesn't crank?
Any suggestions for which type/ brand of battery to purchase tomorrow greatly appreciated.
Many thanks
Tony
 

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Varta make VRLA batteries in a range of regular automotive sizes. That's what you should really want. Forget CCA and capacity rating, they really are irrelevant for non-cranking applications, you want deep discharge VRLA if you want it to last longer than this one has.

Bear in mind Kia has a 7 year warranty. Go ask them before you spend your own money, though. It isn't really a service item, especially at 3 years.

What form factor size is it? Can't say I have ever bothered to notice on mine before.
 

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Driving cars around to recharge after a jump start is not a long term solution. Try trickle charging for a few days. You may even find the battery comes back up.
 

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We've had the same problem twice in the last week. However, we've driven somewhere first, which is much more inconvenient. My wife was out with the baby when it happened this morning. I think the wing mirrors were still working, but the car wouldn't start properly - warning lights (usually about the brakes), then completely fails to start.
Both times we've used a small jump start battery (charged by a USB connection) to get the car going. A very useful device but it's a bit of a pain. We have a MyEnergi Zappi car charger. The car was plugged in overnight on both occasions. Last night we didn't charge the car (I forgot). Wondering if connection to the charger is keeping the car awake in some way and therefore draining the battery. We did have the same problem about this time last year, and I decided it was where we were trying to 'smart boost' the car with 10kWh overnight, but the car needed less before it was fully charged (e.g. 7kWh). I thought perhaps the charger was regularly attempting to top up the car, waking it up, but then the car was refusing the charge.
Not sure that's the case now.
My wife is on her way to the Kia garage to get the battery checked, and their opinion. Baby's asleep now. She's hoping he won't wake up.
 

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If the battery is dead already then there's also a chance that the doodad for keeping it topped up isn't working. Kia told me they expect a normal 12v to be flat in 3 or 4 days and the car had to be used every few days!

I'd take it into Kia to make sure it's actually keeping the 12v topped up in the first place. There's no excuse for Kia not having got this right by now.
 

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Kia have told my wife that the warranty on the battery is only 2 years (ours is 2.5 years old), and a Kia replacement is over £200!!! Service technician suggested we contact the lease company - failing that look elsewhere for a replacement battery. let me know how you get on. I'm going to borrow a 12v charger and see if I can recharge it over night.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I have just changed the battery for a new one and i have power.
However the car is throwing up loads of warning lights and messages such as "Stop vehicle and check brakes" and "stop vehicle and check power supply".
There is no steering , no power to the infotainment screen.
The car will go forward and backwards but the green car light on the dash is flashing.
So its stuck on the drive atm.
Nightmare....
 

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I'd call Kia and get it recovered. It's clearly had some kind of incident. Even if it decides to behave normally again I'd want it checked out to make sure.

There is an isolation switch for turning off all 12v power. Might be worth a go turning that off. Locking the car with the metal key, unlocking with that key and then turning it back on at the switch to see whether it sorts itself out. It's in the owner handbook on how to do it.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Ok we (well my very clever brother in law) have found the fault.
In the fuse box under the bonnet there is a huge fuse called a "multi fuse" which is 2 part , [email protected] 80 amp and 1 @ 150 amp. The 150 amp side is blown ! New part is on order from the main dealer.
We suspect that when i put jump leads on this morning from my wifes running Astra to get the car started that the 14.4 volts coming across were too much. I should of done it with the wifes car switched off apparently.
My brother in law also suggested that as my 12v battery dropped in volts the amps would of gone up and that this could also of been the cause. I have ordered a 12v socket plug in to monitor it in the future.
I will take some pics tomorrow of the offending item and upload but it is mentioned in the owners manual.
New fuse will be in on Wednesday so fingers crossed.
 

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Oops! EVs are no good at being jump started or jump starting other cars. As you've discovered...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Here is a couple of pictures of the offending item. It's quite a big bugger as you can see from the image next to the key fob.
The 150 amp side is clearly blown.
Off the main dealer for the new part shortly at a cost of £36.00 + vat.
IMG_20200108_100827.jpg
IMG_20200108_100928.jpg
 

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Oops! EVs are no good at being jump started or jump starting other cars. As you've discovered...
I wouldn't use an EV to jump start an ICE (the 12v system is not designed for starter current) but done correctly I can't see a problem with "jump starting" an EV with a flat 12v battery from another car, EV or ICE or from a regulated 12v battery charger for that matter. (Which I have done before)

However I would make sure the other car was off so that it was only the battery of the donor car providing power and not the alternator of an ICE or DC/DC converter of an EV. There is no need for high current, you just need a small amount of power to "bootstrap" the car by booting up the ECU's and letting the car go into operating mode at which point the built in DC/DC converter will take over topping up the 12v battery.

Not sure how the fuse in this thread was blown - if the jump start was done correctly from battery posts to battery posts there would have been no current path through any fuses in the car to blow them...
 

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The owners manual says to jump start with the negative connected to a metal part of the car rather than to the negative terminal on the battery. It says connect the positive to the battery, then the positive to the donor battery, then the negative to the donor battery, then finally a ground on the car away from the battery.
The reason manufacturers say to make the last connection to the chassis instead of negative post is a bit of an anachronism to be honest and doesn't really apply to modern batteries IMO.

In older batteries that still had filler plugs which you could easily unscrew to top up the electrolyte levels and open vents there was a very slight risk of the spark from making the final connection ignite free hydrogen being emitted through the vent or improperly closed and sealed top up plugs causing an explosion. I say very slight because for this to happen the battery would have had to have been recently overcharged to generate gaseous hydrogen and that's very unlikely on a battery which is flat and needing a jump start - which is also why you would make the last connection on the receiving car not the donor, since the donor car battery could be emitting hydrogen if the car is running and overcharging the battery due to a fault.

(Also keep in mind that same spark risk exists when reconnecting a disconnected battery no matter which terminal you connect last, and there is no workaround you can use like there is when doing a jump start since the connection point must by definition be one of the posts)

However these days car batteries are "sealed" - while they technically do still sometimes have filler plugs they are usually hidden and difficult or impossible to access (often under a glued down plastic strip) and are therefore unlikely to be leaking gas due to someone not tightening the plug properly. Also the vent plug is now often a pressure relief valve rather than just a vent. So the chance of exploding hydrogen due to a spark at one of the posts is very close to zero in practice on a modern battery.

The potential problem with making the last connection to the body or motor is that depending on how the earth bonding is arranged in the car you can induce currents through paths that wouldn't normally see that current. Steel bodies are not a particularly good conductor especially if there is corrosion between panels and this could cause induced voltages between different "earth" points. This is especially true when jump starting an ICE car and you are passing hundreds of amps for the starter motor. The starter motor usually has a dedicated, heavy negative cable directly from the battery negative post, while most electronics get their earth via a bonding cable that goes from the battery negative to a plate on the inner wing.

If you make your negative connection to the body you're forcing that starter current to flow through the bonding cable to the body rather than directly from the negative post to the starter. (Not relevant on an EV but just speaking in general here)

In terms of minimising risk to ECU's and other electronics connecting to the post rather than the body is safer, but that should be weighed up against the theoretical risk of igniting free hydrogen from a gassing battery. Personally I have always connected to the post when jump starting an ICE due to the earth bonding paths issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Just want to update the thread with the following.
The AV head unit not working was due to its own 15 amp fuse also blowing in the cabin fuse board by the steering wheel.
Now the old battery which failed has been taken away by my brother in law to see if it can take a charge and be salvaged. It was reading 3.7 volts.
When connected to his car charger in the garage it blows the fuse on the car charger. Same thing on the second try.
There is therefore a major fault within the battery itself.
Apparently the amps put out by the battery go up as the volts drop down?
I now have a volt meter in the cigarette socket and will keep an eye on any drop in the voltage in the future.
 

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Now the old battery which failed has been taken away by my brother in law to see if it can take a charge and be salvaged. It was reading 3.7 volts.
When connected to his car charger in the garage it blows the fuse on the car charger. Same thing on the second try.
There is therefore a major fault within the battery itself.
Don't bother trying to salvage a 12v battery that has been discharged to 3.7 volts, it will be permanently damaged. It's also possible that it has a shorted cell.

Is the cost of not replacing it really worth continuing to do damage to the car ?
 
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