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So I've managed to get my hands on a NOCO Genius5 charger too now so just been playing around to see what happens. First things first, 4x4 in garage has brand new battery fitted days ago which I know was fully charged. So I fit the Noco on it, it takes a few moments to settle and promptly shows this

129582


which means fully charged and it flashes to say it's going into maintenance mode. Exactly what I would expect from a new and essentially unused battery.

So, next up a 2016 Leaf 30 that's been sat on the driveway (not plugged in), traction battery not charged for a week, 12v never been on a charger or been flat but car has been driven a few times over the last week but not many miles. Noco commences with this

129583


which according to the manual is 25% charge. I expected this sort of result to be honest but it quickly (within minutes) stepped up to this

129584


which means 50-75%. But if the battery has been damaged by being cycled too deep too many times, again I would expect that. Charger quickly brings the voltage back up but the storage of available energy will still be quite low. Left it on the charger for about 5 hours, it never got higher than this state.

So home to the Niro. I'll save you the photos, exactly the same result as the Leaf! I've now left the charger on the Niro under the bonnet to see if it ever gets to full or anywhere near it. Given that the charger unit clearly knows what full looks like, I will hopefully have an idea what state the Niro battery is in compared to the other two.

The only trouble is, the Leaf and the Niro are much newer cars and EVs so what I don't know is whether their convoluted electronic circuitry could be fooling the charger in any way. The only solution will be to remove the battery from the Leaf or the Niro to see if it makes any difference.

Exciting times we live in :rolleyes:
 

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I've now left the charger on the Niro under the bonnet to see if it ever gets to full or anywhere near it.
In my experience a smart charger can sometimes take up to 12 hours for it to go through its conditioning and maintenance phase before reporting an end to a charge session. This is far more important than simply adding voltage as it repairs any sulphidation so that the battery can once again reach and maintain its full voltage capability.

If a battery has been damaged by repeated periods of low charge and rapid charging using a dumb charger it will eventually die. Smart chargers analyse and instigate a charging regime to recover from that and if used regularly can usually not only stop future problems but lengthen its useful life.
 

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I used a NOCO Genius5 for the first time on our e-Niro yesterday. It reported maintenance mode in around 2 hours. However I was charging with the bonnet closed as I had previously measured a current drain of 1.8A from one of the two leads connected to the battery +ve terminal. I have not yet had a chance to play with bonnet open and the closing mechanism microswitch forced closed. My battery was not giving any problems but the car had stood for 3 weeks and had only being driven for a couple of miles in that time. I fed the 12V charger cable out of the scuttle by the nearside bonnet hinge. This was done very carefully! With the bonnet open the drivers LCD displays a warning graphic showing the bonnet is open but I am not sure if this accounts for the measured current draw.
 

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With the bonnet shut and on the drive, I have to have it locked obviously which adds to the draw but I have no idea how much the draw is. Earlier comments suggests very low which might not impact the charger much at all. We'll see, I'll leave it on overnight and look in the morning.
 

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So after 15 hours on the Noco, popped the bonnet and I finally have a green flashing light indicating the charger has finished and gone into maintenance mode (y)

Think I'll just leave it on there safely locked under the bonnet for a day or two. Need to do the same with the Leaf now when I get chance.
 

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So after 15 hours on the Noco, popped the bonnet and I finally have a green flashing light indicating the charger has finished and gone into maintenance mode (y)

Think I'll just leave it on there safely locked under the bonnet for a day or two. Need to do the same with the Leaf now when I get chance.
Do you still have Battery Saver enabled? Wonder what will happen if both car and external charger attempt to charge the battery at the same time. Maybe that has already happened over the past 15 hours you had the external charger attached. Just depends on when your automatic 24-hour charging cycle begins. It drifts by 20 minutes each day because the 24-hour timer delay starts when the previous cycle ends.

I'm trying not to use my car over the next 10 days. Somewhere in the manual I believe it said it would only run Battery Saver maximum 10 consecutive times. Want to know if that's true. If so, I guess you need to power on the car to reset it for another 10 days?
 

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Well it happily sat through last night without griping about it and it was switched on. I guess if it did come on, the charger would see it as a full battery not needing to be charged as it would see 14+ volts. It would go to sleep until battery saver went off again then carry on.
 

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As an alternative to connecting an external charger every time you park the car, another option would be to permanently install a 12V battery monitor that can notify you when the 12V battery SOC is getting too low. This way you can intervene before it gets too low to start the car. People in the Kona forum are using this one to try and make sense of the 12V charging behavior of these cars. You can watch the video linked on the product page to see how it's installed and used. I'm sure there are similar devices in other parts of the world.
 

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12v battery drain: Further progress report.

My MY20 was in the dealers for 4 working days as they tried to trace a high but variable current drain. They failed to find a particular cause. Last strategy was to eliminate the battery as the culptit.
Disconnect, recharge, moniter. Found it held its charge so it wasn't that. Reconnected it to the vehicle and the current drain disappeared.

They concluded that the battery was probably only partially charged on delivery. Taking comments from this forum I further conclude that the dc/dc 12v recharge system is designed to "top up" and not designed to charge from flat. Therefore, once flat it remains vulnerable until recharged externally. I also wasn't always careful in keeping the doors locked not realising that in such event the vehicle doesn't shut down!!

So, unless Kia do a recall and redesign (and they probably won't) then the solutions are as already suggested on this vary wise forum:

Drive almost daily
Monitor SoC with something like gizmo suggested (I've ordered one).
Charge up about once a month or when gizmo says so.

So this has been all about design; top up charging and what does and does not shut down and when.
 

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So this has been all about design; top up charging and what does and does not shut down and when.
This has been the case for six years. Numerous garage investigations without a conclusion. OEM's denying that there is a problem. And most people reaching a decision to take preventative maintenance measures to avoid being stranded at an inconvenient time and place.

The point that is often missed is that if a lead/acid battery is allowed to fluctuate weekly between a very low voltage and then rapidly fully charged on a dumb charger it will quickly die. This allows the garage to simply replace the battery under warranty and walk away from the problem. Until it happens again. By using a smart charger once a month for at least 12 hours the battery remains in good condition and will last years despite this EV glitch still being present. A small price to pay for peace of mind imo.
 

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This has been the case for six years. Numerous garage investigations without a conclusion. OEM's denying that there is a problem. And most people reaching a decision to take preventative maintenance measures to avoid being stranded at an inconvenient time and place.

The point that is often missed is that if a lead/acid battery is allowed to fluctuate weekly between a very low voltage and then rapidly fully charged on a dumb charger it will quickly die. This allows the garage to simply replace the battery under warranty and walk away from the problem. Until it happens again. By using a smart charger once a month for at least 12 hours the battery remains in good condition and will last years despite this EV glitch still being present. A small price to pay for peace of mind imo.
Not the way to sell a working car though and a great deal of trouble for someone like me with Mobility issues. I wanted a car that wouldn't cause me trouble. Over £30,000 it's not a lot to ask. I'm feeling really annoyed now like I've been done over by a bunch of shysters. Can't believe it. I'm not even confident I can leave it out on the street for a few days when visiting friends (whenever that's allowed)
 

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Not the way to sell a working car though and a great deal of trouble for someone like me with Mobility issues. I wanted a car that wouldn't cause me trouble. Over £30,000 it's not a lot to ask. I'm feeling really annoyed now like I've been done over by a bunch of shysters. Can't believe it. I'm not even confident I can leave it out on the street for a few days when visiting friends (whenever that's allowed)
A bit of over-reaction there. This isn't by any means a universal problem. The incidence of a 12v DC battery causing people a problem is very small indeed. The vast majority of EV's never experience any issue at all. It's highly likely that your own car will never need either dealer intervention or monthly attention using a charger. I just prefer to put it on a maintenance charge as part of my monthly tyre kicking and screenwash routine. I could probably get away with not doing that and if you find it difficult then don't bother. The risk is vanishingly small.
 

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My car already has this problem and was due to go in to be 'sorted' when the lockdown came. I have it on Smart charger at the moment but previously had it go flat on me three times now. It's just difficult for me to go through the process of hooking up a line, feeding it out of the house, into the car, hooking it up to the battery etc. It's a lot more than adding a bit of screen wash and somewhat problematic if you have mobility issues.

I had a Leaf 30 before this car and never had any sign of such a problem. I just think that for over Thirty grand they could be bothered to sort it out.
 

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I had a Leaf 30 before this car and never had any sign of such a problem.
The Gen1 LEAF24 suffered this feature but was cured by the Gen2 which was way before the LEAF30. Clearly Hyundai are still learning.
 

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I have it on Smart charger at the moment but previously had it go flat on me three times now.
That is also part of the problem as the 12v DC battery is now probably in a poor state of health following three incidents of total failure and resurrection. Even the best, most expensive, smart charger and conditioner might not be able to bring it back to full life. I suspect that your best option here is to insist on a replacement battery under warranty and perhaps fitting one the tiny 12v display units in the 'ciggy lighter' so that you can keep a close eye on the voltage and only resort to the aggro of trailing a mains lead out when/if necessary.
 

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The Gen1 LEAF24 suffered this feature but was cured by the Gen2 which was way before the LEAF30. Clearly Hyundai are still learning.
I never had a single problem with the Leaf . The Kia I've had the paddles sticking; the charge hatch stuck; the veneer coming off the 'gear' switch and now the battery. I understood Kia were supposed to be better built than Nissan.
 

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That is also part of the problem as the 12v DC battery is now probably in a poor state of health following three incidents of total failure and resurrection. Even the best, most expensive, smart charger and conditioner might not be able to bring it back to full life. I suspect that your best option here is to insist on a replacement battery under warranty and perhaps fitting one the tiny 12v display units in the 'ciggy lighter' so that you can keep a close eye on the voltage and only resort to the aggro of trailing a mains lead out when/if necessary.
What exactly is too low on the 12v, at what point does the battery cease to function? I have OVMS but switch it off when not charging just in case it did drain the battery. I think I can set an alert up on that to message my mobile.
 

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What exactly is too low on the 12v, at what point does the battery cease to function? I have OVMS but switch it off when not charging just in case it did drain the battery. I think I can set an alert up on that to message my mobile.
You might find the discharge characteristics shown in Figure 3 (manual page 6) of this document informative.


Using the charactistic of time and discharge current at 25C, a sensible warning level might be close to 11.8 volts for a discharge current of less than an amp or so.
 

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I’m not sure if this is relevant given the comment made previously by @symonday regarding it not having been fully charged. So as per previous posts, I left the car overnight on the Noco until it reported full and left it for another 24 hours.

The car has been sat on the drive since save for a few very short trips to local shops. I decided to go out and put it on the Noco again to see what it says.

Took less than 15 minutes to get it back to full indicating very little net drain over about 48 hours. What I would expect from a decent battery on a modern car.

Maybe it had never been full. Car now showing 12.6v stable when idle, again what I would expect.
 

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Fitted a battery isolation switch to my 4x4 this morning to cut out any ghost drain while it's sitting idle in the garage. Seriously thinking about putting one on the Niro. Trouble is, I've only got the one garage so it sits outside most of the time so can't really be isolated while locked and alarmed. :rolleyes:
 
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