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Discussion Starter #1
I was watching the recent German review of the ID.3 and something caught my "ear". There is a statement from the reviewer that is "150hp for up to 30s"!

Here is the moment:

That is what looks like the mid battery, 58kWh, with the 150hp (which is lower than promised) and finally there is a limit of 30s that is mentioned?
Any comments?
 

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This sounds unlikely.... perhaps 150hp during normal use, but when you put your foot down you get a over-boost to 204hp for 30 seconds?
 

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It is very unlikely that in normal driving anyone will use max power for more then 30 seconds. You would need a very steep hill with no bends, otherwise you will be hitting the speed limit or comming off the road at a bend.

The question is how long it takes the car to recover before you get access to max power again. I expect the issue is cooling, remember that even Tesla limits max power if the car is overheating due to spirited driving.
 

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I can hit max power in my R110 Zoe of a 80kW or 107bhp for a few seconds but as it reaches its top speed of 87mph the motor unloads and the power goes down. As people have said above you won't need full power for any longer than 30secs.
 

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I am not sure what the issue/question is, excepting a limited understanding of motor ratings by EVangelists.

Motors have different ratings. I am not sure if there is a standard way of reporting automotive motors yet but often you might find specifications for;
10s
40s
60s
'continuous'

Of course, VMs will advertise the 10s rating.

... of course!...

Whether that has any bearing on the 'continuous' rating or not is an entirely different question.

I doubt the Golf would be much more than ~50kW continuous and I'd tend to expect the same for Tesla. The continuous power ratings for cars is of only passing interest to all except perhaps the most ardent of autobahn max-speed people.

For high continuous ratings you need large, well cooled motors.

The only EV that appears to be able to sustain its rated power for more than 60s is the Ampera, which has direct oil cooling in its two motors.

This is not anything unexpected.

If you apply 150hp to a Golf for 30 seconds you'd end up at over 120mph. There is no need for sustained power. But the continuous power ratings of EVs (if those were used as a comparison) would look really shit compared with ICE cars.
 

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The e-Golf does this already. You get the full power (137hp/100kW) for about 12 seconds before the power drops off.

 

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I think this is an area the traditional ICE tuning companies had better get to grips with if they’re to have a long term future.

Motor upgrades anybody?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
This sounds unlikely.... perhaps 150hp during normal use, but when you put your foot down you get a over-boost to 204hp for 30 seconds?
I like that idea, but sounds unlikely.

The e-Golf does this already. You get the full power (137hp/100kW) for about 12 seconds before the power drops off.
I don't get what you mean, as in the video you can clearly see MAX power maintained for longer than 12s. The video hit 156km/h in 24s and was at max throttle for about 20 of those seconds.

@donald Do you mean to say that 30s is the expected time for ID.3 to reach max speed (160km/h)? Or what will happen if I want to maintain max speed for longer than 30s? And if I can't maintain max power, will that mean that I can't maintain max speed either?
 

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The e-Golf does this already. You get the full power (137hp/100kW) for about 12 seconds before the power drops off.

That's different imo. It's using 100% available power whilst accelerating. Then once it's reached top speed, it's using 40odd% to maintain that speed.

100% power is still available, if not I'd expect the outer blue bar to reduce from 100% to whatever percent was available.

Just my take..
 

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I like that idea, but sounds unlikely.


I don't get what you mean, as in the video you can clearly see MAX power maintained for longer than 12s. The video hit 156km/h in 24s and was at max throttle for about 20 of those seconds.

@donald Do you mean to say that 30s is the expected time for ID.3 to reach max speed (160km/h)? Or what will happen if I want to maintain max speed for longer than 30s? And if I can't maintain max power, will that mean that I can't maintain max speed either?
You won't need anything like 150hp to sustain max speed. By definition /design, max speed will probably be max continuous power. Again, 'probably' this will be around 50kW for 100mph top speed.

In fact perhaps I should also have pointed out how this merely shows how over-engineered ICE are: why would you ever want a car to be carrying around the dead weight of an engine that can deliver max power continuously when it's impossible to use max power continuously? Just goes to show how well tuned electric motors are to providing the ideal set of traction requirements for a passenger car.
 

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That's different imo. It's using 100% available power whilst accelerating. Then once it's reached top speed, it's using 40odd% to maintain that speed.

100% power is still available, if not I'd expect the outer blue bar to reduce from 100% to whatever per cent was available.

Just my take..
You need to look at the E-MAX bar under the power meter in the video. It depletes after 12 seconds.
 

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I didn't realise it only had 150 hp. Is there a more powerful version? I don't mind the 30s limit, but 150 hp is nowhere near enough to tempt me away from a Tesla M3!
 

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I'm genuinely curious, why the obsession with "having" to have high powered cars? The 100kW/137bhp motor in the eGolf is plenty nippy for normal driving and I've never had an issue of not having enough power to overtake safely and easily on single carriageway roads, let alone dual carriageway/motorway.

What is the use case scenario for people making statements along the lines of 150bhp isn't enough, I need 180, 200, etc? It's more expensive to insure and less economical to run. Also, although I don't have hard data to back it up, I'm sure I see more serious injuries and deaths from people crashing higher powered vehicles (or being crashed into by them).
 

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Utility doesn't come into it. It's the "my car is better than your car" syndrome. A sort of adult extension of Top Trumps.

A large proportion of high powered cars spend their time making impressive "Brmmm Brmm!!" noises at low speeds in the high street. Some of them only get polished and kept in a car collection.

It has very little to do with transport.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I didn't realise it only had 150 hp. Is there a more powerful version? I don't mind the 30s limit, but 150 hp is nowhere near enough to tempt me away from a Tesla M3!
This hasn't been confirmed yet. There are some who have received the info from dealers (who probably know less than the common forum member of speakEV). And actually the video in the original German language uses kW, which means 150kW ~ 200hp.
 

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The only utility in having over 100hp is for autobahn use. This sort of usage is terrible for EVs that will be unable to sustain autobahn speeds anyway.

110hp is more than adequate to sustain 120mph, and 160hp for 130~140mph, nothwithstanding some deceleration on gradients but that only really applies to the south west of Germany and into Lux. The rest of the time, you are able to exceed the speed limits in all European countries outside of Germany with anything more than 65hp (excepting hill climbs).
 

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The only utility in having over 100hp is for autobahn use. This sort of usage is terrible for EVs that will be unable to sustain autobahn speeds anyway.

110hp is more than adequate to sustain 120mph, and 160hp for 130~140mph, nothwithstanding some deceleration on gradients but that only really applies to the south west of Germany and into Lux. The rest of the time, you are able to exceed the speed limits in all European countries outside of Germany with anything more than 65hp (excepting hill climbs).

🤣🤣

Actually it is far more useful for overtaking on a single carriageway... where the ’40 mph EVERYWHERE’ old biddy is actually holding up the flow of traffic.

On a motorway most low powered engines are adequate once up to speed.
 
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