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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi folks, first post on what appears to be a very well-mannered and polite forum (compared to some of the ‘Wild West Shoot ‘Em Up’ car forums I was a member of in my yoof)

Circumstances dictate a second car for my commute and looking to pick up a Leaf Acenta 30kwh, 3-4 years old, 30k miles (ish). It will be kept for in excess of 10 years, something I have always done with my cars – mostly coz I hate buying cars!

I do have a question re charge points and searches have not quite got me to the bottom of this. I am hoping someone will know with some definity (real word!!).

Is it OK to connect in a 16A charge point (eg Rolec with Type 2 socket) to the 32A ring in my integral garage? Allowing for the unit being suitably protected etc. We have three 32A socket rings in the house and the one covering the north end extends into the garage. Newer house, electrics all up to scratch and recently checked.

Reason for this solution is the outside of my garage’s rear wall is realistically the only place to mount the charge point and all the electrics in the garage are surface mounted including the wiring (in conduit). Would make life soooo much easier doing it this way if allowed to just connect in and drill through the wall.

Just to be clear the car will be parked outside the back of the garage not in it - hopefully that much was obvious.

Any advice on this would be most welcome.

Cheers

Graham
 

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Scorzon- welcome to the forum.

New regulations came into force regarding external mountings roundabout Feb 2019. It requires an earth with a readable value of less than 200 Ohms. I was unable to get anywhere near that, even digging a 4 ft hole and using a hosepipe for 5 minutes with my installation so I had to have it fitted to the inside of my garage.

As it turns out it was an excuse to remove all the accumulated rubbish so I could actually get both cars in the garage at once!

Cheers Tony.
 

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Regulations say a charging point MUST be on a dedicated, protected circuit. It really wouldn't be safe to connect even a 16A charger to a 30A ring.

It is rare now to actually connect the charging point to the consumer unit (CU) as few can accommodate the latest regulations on protection. Where is your meter as it is more common to split the supply from it and fit a small, dedicated CU just for car charging. If it isn't in a suitable place there may be other alternatives, but you would need an electrician to do a survey.
 

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With regard to proddik's post, My place was built in 1983 ish, and the meter box is over 100mtrs from the garage. It cost £2500 for my chargemaster to be connected. Just saying........
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Cheers Barfly and proddick for the rapid responses. And damn to high hell those pesky safety regs!! Who do they think they are eh, keeping us safe an' all.

My place is fairly new with up to date electrics recently checked too. I really want to avoid work internal to the house, as we've only just redecorated after a new kitchen was fitted.

There appears to be a slot on my CU (well on the protected circuits side there is) but again it would cause internal works and the CU is at the front of the house, exactly in the wrong place.

One option I have had mooted by a pal is to add a dedicated 32A run starting in the meter box on the front wall of the house. It would be taken from the tails between the meter and the CU which is on the other side of the wall from the meter. Obvs it would have its own little CU and protective devices - I guess.

This would then be run from there low along the front wall of the house in a protective conduit for 3 meters (well hidden by plants) at which point it reaches the front of the garage and it would be relatively trivial to route the cable through the garage door trim, though the garage and out the back wall to the charge point.

I'm wincing as I write that, which is nothing to do with what I had for lunch. Does that sound fair?
 

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Your call, get at least 3 quotes. You look a sprightly young thing from your 'photos, offer to dig the trenches and do the donkey work and it may work out cheaper for you. Luckily my dealer paid for my install, I sort of stitched them up a bit there, but paid full price for the Leaf, so I can sleep ok at night.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks Barfly, I'm in my fifties!! Of course it's in no way possible that I just reused the first old photo I found, that never happens on tinterweb.

And there will be no trench digging on my watch, it'll scuff my nails.

I was merely wondering whether the idea of spurring off from between the meter to CU tails sounds feasible/allowable. I would be paying a stout and doughty tradesman to do the required work.

And yes of course I'll investigate a number of options and quotes.
 

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Cheers Barfly and proddick for the rapid responses. And damn to high hell those pesky safety regs!! Who do they think they are eh, keeping us safe an' all.

My place is fairly new with up to date electrics recently checked too. I really want to avoid work internal to the house, as we've only just redecorated after a new kitchen was fitted.

There appears to be a slot on my CU (well on the protected circuits side there is) but again it would cause internal works and the CU is at the front of the house, exactly in the wrong place.

One option I have had mooted by a pal is to add a dedicated 32A run starting in the meter box on the front wall of the house. It would be taken from the tails between the meter and the CU which is on the other side of the wall from the meter. Obvs it would have its own little CU and protective devices - I guess.

This would then be run from there low along the front wall of the house in a protective conduit for 3 meters (well hidden by plants) at which point it reaches the front of the garage and it would be relatively trivial to route the cable through the garage door trim, though the garage and out the back wall to the charge point.

I'm wincing as I write that, which is nothing to do with what I had for lunch. Does that sound fair?
Welcome!

The advice so far is good but incomplete. You should not use the same type of RCBO for the house electrics and the car - the car charge point needs a Type (Edited) A or B. If you only have a single slot available in the CU then that may not be possible, and anyway I'd look at an alternative solution.

Your Pal is making a good suggestion. A 32A connection future-proofs your installation even if your next 10 year solution doesn't need it. Do you have a switch between the meter and the CU? If not get your supplier to quote for fitting one - it makes life much easier! At the same time contact your DNU (the people that supply the electricity, not the people that bill you for it) and ask the size of your main fuse. You need to check that you have sufficient capacity with everything on (oven, electric shower, electric heating etc) - you may need the supply increasing.

And finally - the subject that I bore for England on :rolleyes: - the Earthing! :devilish: Is the surface that the car will be parked on part of the house - i.e. a garage extension, car port etc,and what sort of surface? It is often best to not use the same Earth as the rest of the house which is likely to be a PME (check in your meter box) and instead use an Earth rod, although note Tony's experience above.

The best advice is to get three quotes from knowledgeable and reputable companies, and do things like cable laying yourself to their specification if it is over 15m as they generally charge extra for that.
 

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the car charge point needs a Type AC
Wrong... A charging point needs Type A or B residual current protection depending on DC protection.


 

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I was merely wondering whether the idea of spurring off from between the meter to CU tails sounds feasible/allowable.
That is usually the best way as you can NOT typically just connect to a spare way in the consumer unit (CU) any longer. The charging point needs a dedicated RCD and that won't usually fit.

You have to install protection close to the meter, so many installers put the mini CU in the meter cupboard. Technically that isn't allowed, but I am not aware of anyone having issues from their suppliers.

Many of the OLEV installers include splitting the supply and fitting the mini CU in the cost, so I suggest you get a quote showing them your meter, etc. before paying anyone else to do it. Perhaps Podpoint?
 
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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Cheers folks, really good fodder to chew on there.

I appreciate that the 32A 'future proofs' the installation, however the ease of the 16A into 32A ring was appealing and in 10-13 years time me and missus will both be retired with kid gone and thus quite possibly moving on anyway. So it was a compromise I was happy to make.

Good to know that the fitters may well include the meter box splitting and CU in the quote and I assume that I would still be eligible for the OLEV.

I'm pretty sure the main fuse on the supply is 100A, I'll have a quick ganders tonight.

To answer the earthing question, the car would be on a tarmac hardstanding at the bottom end of the garden, so well apart from the house by 12 metres. So yes, having had a charge point installed on the back of the garage I would need to spend nearly 300 knicker on a 15m long T1/T2 cable.

And please no, there is no digging up of Mrs Scorzon's garden to lay cables, it is not happening, I cant go there. I will happily work around it with a long connecting cable. Note that the cable length from meter box to charge point would be in the order of 18 meters, to allow for the required up and overs in the garage.
 

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If you are indeed intending a long cable run-ensure they use the right cable with a very low internal resistance. If you don't you will find the plants really thriving on top of the cable in the Winter!
 

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I'm pretty sure the main fuse on the supply is 100A, I'll have a quick ganders tonight.
The rating on the fuse holder is for the fuse holder, the fuse inside may be smaller. The only way is to ask the DNO.
no, there is no digging up of Mrs Scorzon's garden to lay cables, it is not happening, I cant go there
Rather than spend on such a long T1/T2 cable, is there a fence or wall that you could clip SWA cable to and mount the charge point nearer to the car?
 

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Welcome to the madness that is home car charging.

My own contribution is from hard experience of fitting such a unit. If you go for a switch to isolate the main supply and then fit a split of supply after the meter into a secondary CU it is highly likely that the sub-contractor booked to do that work will break the seal on the Company fuse without permission. They will probably not be legally authorised to do that but most do anyway.

The correct way is for them to organise a joint visit with a DNO engineer who is authorised to break the seal and remove the fuse so that the work can be carried out in safety. Then, after all of the work is completed that DNO engineer will re-seal the Company fuse in place. But that costs the fitting company for the DNO attendance so they tend to just do it themselves and leave the site with no seal on the Company fuse holder.

They hope that the homeowner doesn't notice and it may be years before it is spotted and awkward questions asked of the homeowner at that time who can be accused of some kind of illegal activity such as running a cannabis farm or bypassing the meter in some way.

When I did spot the omission I rang the fitters who admitted they were not authorised to reseal the fuse and told me to contact the DNO. They came out immediately even though it was then 8pm and demanded to know chapter and verse what had gone on. They said that the cost of this out of hours visit would be invoiced to the point fitters. The engineer said that he was constantly being called out in identical circumstances so this must be a fairly common shortcut they try on.

Just a heads up to avoid similar difficulties by being aware of this possibility in advance.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Barfly, the cable wont be buried due to my strong 'no digging' ethic, so there wont be anything thriving on top of it - the cats might enjoy sitting on it mind. The long cable would be a 15m T1/T2 connector cable plugged in at the charge point at one end and hopefully my Leaf at the other.

Re the fuse holder, best thing is for me to open it up and have a look at the fuse I suppose ;-) :) Or........we have the developer build docs as we bought it new, I'll check those first as there is def stuff on the electrics, it might say.

DK, it's a nice thought re the fence and I have considered this already. There is a fence from garage right up to where the car would stand but it blew down in strong winds around 2 1/2 years ago. It has been replaced, but obvs I would be averse to tacking power cables on to it for this reason.

Does it really matter though. Whether the charge point is on the back of the garage or next to the hardstanding, there is still the same length of 32A rated cable required. I get that 32A rated connector cable may be a thinner pipe than heavy duty armoured cable tacked along a fence/buried, but will it make that much difference? Noting that the Leaf I get will be most likely 3.3 as I am cheap like that.

Hitstirrer, that is a very good point of order and I will remain vigilant, thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I did wonder whether there are outdoor trunking options. You know some kind spikes to be sunk into the ground in parallel to the fence that would carry a heavy duty conduit low down near to the ground and within which the SWA could run? Just musing wildly.

Of course if the useless developers had designed my house with more than a 12 foot front driveway I'd be fine.
 

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Re the fuse holder, best thing is for me to open it up and have a look at the fuse I suppose ;-) :)
As @Hitstirrer says, that would be illegal as well as unsafe. Contact the DNO - as long as you know your MPN they can look it up.
Does it really matter though. Whether the charge point is on the back of the garage or next to the hardstanding, there is still the same length of 32A rated cable required. I get that 32A rated connector cable may be a thinner pipe than heavy duty armoured cable tacked along a fence/buried, but will it make that much difference?
In theory only a very small amount. The 15M cable will be a pain to roll up when it is wet, but at least a 16A one is relatively light and flexible.

How is Mrs Scorzon going to take you running it through her flower beds every day? :eek: ;)

You know some kind spikes to be sunk into the ground in parallel to the fence that would carry a heavy duty conduit low down near to the ground and within which the SWA could run?
You don't need trunking for the SWA - it could run post to post or on a stainless steel support cable to be free from the fence.
 

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Hi OP, I suggest you get a local electrician in to survey your property and recommend a bespoke solution. It's probably worth your time and money to purchase a copy of the wiring regs and study the same so you are knowledgeable about what is required.

Don't worry, if it all seems daunting at the beginning 😁
 

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Or you could just plug the granny lead into a 13amp 3 pin socket in the garage. Many people have done that for years with no issues. And that is despite all of the dire warnings of doom that surrounds the notion of doing that long term. As the car only takes 3.3Kw input anyway, the drop to 2.5Kw isn't a total disaster and even with an empty battery, it would only take a couple of hours longer to fill using the granny lead instead of a fitted charger.

I suspect that your particular installation could be costing quite a £shedload of cash even with the grant, and that money saved would run the car for years instead. But don't blame me if your house became the first in the world to burn to the ground due to using a 13amp socket to charge an EV and pull 10 amps for long periods of time.
 

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Or you could just plug the granny lead into a 13amp 3 pin socket in the garage. Many people have done that for years with no issues. And that is despite all of the dire warnings of doom that surrounds the notion of doing that long term. As the car only takes 3.3Kw input anyway, the drop to 2.5Kw isn't a total disaster and even with an empty battery, it would only take a couple of hours longer to fill using the granny lead instead of a fitted charger.

I suspect that your particular installation could be costing quite a £shedload of cash even with the grant, and that money saved would run the car for years instead. But don't blame me if your house became the first in the world to burn to the ground due to using a 13amp socket to charge an EV and pull 10 amps for long periods of time.
Not very helpful but possibly coming from a position of ignorance.
 
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