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Discussion Starter #1
Hi..

I currently own a 57 Ford C-Max 2.0 diesel and really want to change for an EV. I test drove a 24 kwh Leaf in February and was starting to look around before the world went in to lockdown. My budget would be around 10k (or under £200 pcm) and I average around 8000 miles a year (Daily 20-30 mile commute with occasional longer journeys of say 80 miles) I'd also be using it probably once a year to go on longer journeys for holiday etc. Looking at the figures I'm currently spending around £150 a month on the C-Max (fuel, road tax and general maintenance) so I could almost buy the new EV for a similar price (and potentially save much more once it's been paid for). It would be a choice of either a loan or a PCP depending on which car I end up going for.

So after initially looking at the Leaf 24 kwh I realised that a Leaf 30 would be much better. I've now also started to look at the Zoe, here's my thoughts on the cars I have in mind, any feedback or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Leaf 30 - £9-10k Range 90-120
This was my initial first choice but having read of the poor battery degradation if I was to purchase the car outright I'd be concerned about the resale in 3 - 5 years time.

Renault Zoe.. but which one to choose..?

Zoe 22 Q210
(Lease) £6-8k Range 80-100
They seem like a really nice car. I'd be looking for a car that was under warranty as I've read about failures with the chargers and inverters being very expensive to repair.
Zoe 22 Q210 (i) £9-11k Range 80-100
As above but with the battery being owned I'd be more likely to keep the car for longer if it suited without worrying about paying the battery lease.
Zoe 40 R90 £10-12k Range 140-170
This seems like the perfect car for me to own for a couple of years, the range would be perfect for me 99% of the time except for longer journeys. With it only having the 22 kw charger, this would mean lengthy (1h 45m) stops on longer journeys, meaning the same trip could actually be quicker with the Q210 motor (budget wouldn't stretch to the Q90).

Does anyone have any experience of the monthly battery lease? I've heard people say just to opt for the lowest tier >4500 miles as either their mileage wasn't checked or it's as cheap to pay for the excess mileage?

I'm going to try and go for a test drive in the Zoe as I'm quite tall (6' 3") to make absolutely sure that I fit comfortably! If I had the budget I'd also be looking at the Soul 30 and Hyundai Ioniq 28 but unfortunately they're a little out of my price range.

Any information, insights good dealers to try (I'm East Midlands based) or advice would be greatly appreciated.
 

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Also may be worth considering the eGolf which is relatively cheap in lease:
 

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I hadn't heard about the degradation of 30kw Leaf batteries. As an owner of one, this is worrying. Do you or anyone else have any more info on this please?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I hadn't heard about the degradation of 30kw Leaf batteries. As an owner of one, this is worrying. Do you or anyone else have any more info on this please?
I'm not saying that all says have problems but there certainly does seem to be a fair few. Many were resolved when Nissan released the BMS update for the battery. But you are still seeing many even fairly low mileage cars with SOH (State Of Health) below 85%.

 

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Think your range estimates are about right, I'd also be a bit concerned about degradation on the leaf but if the wife would drive one I'd have bought one for a very similar usage profile and just lived with the fact that after a few years it might not make the 80 mile journey in winter without a small top up.

As for resale value 2011 24kwh leafs which degrade quickest of the lot it seems are advertised for £5-6k+ so that gives you some idea.
 

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Zoe 22 Q210 (Lease) £6-8k Range 80-100
...
Zoe 22 Q210 (i) £9-11k Range 80-100
...
Zoe 40 R90 £10-12k Range 140-170
This is optimistic in my opinion. You should be aware the range may be as little as 60 miles on the 22kWh, or 120 on the 40kWh in subzero temperatures, at 70MPH.
 

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@spz932 where did you get those figures? I never got less than 80 miles on sub zero motorway trips in Zoe. Granted I was in Eco @ 60...

I’d recommend the Zoe 22 over the Leaf. Range is about the same (80 winter, 100ish summer), but Zoe batteries are in better shape.

Battery lease on Zoe isn’t a real problem - as long as you include it in your TCO calculation and it works for you. I sold a battery lease car with no issue, it’s also wise to go for the cheapest tier as they rarely chase over-mileage.

Zoe also has a better AC charging speed, so you have more options like 22kw posts in car parks etc.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
@spz932 where did you get those figures? I never got less than 80 miles on sub zero motorway trips in Zoe. Granted I was in Eco @ 60...

I’d recommend the Zoe 22 over the Leaf. Range is about the same (80 winter, 100ish summer), but Zoe batteries are in better shape.

Battery lease on Zoe isn’t a real problem - as long as you include it in your TCO calculation and it works for you. I sold a battery lease car with no issue, it’s also wise to go for the cheapest tier as they rarely chase over-mileage.

Zoe also has a better AC charging speed, so you have more options like 22kw posts in car parks etc.
Thanks, This is kind of where I'm at also, was thinking of a 2 year PCP, that way there's no risk but also the chance to have a little to put towards a newer model in a couple of years. The next choice (assuming the test drive goes ok once I manage one) Is 22kwh Q210 or 41kwh R90..
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Regardless of what you choose, pcp probably the better option for you as it at least protects you regarding the future value of your car.
That's my thoughts exactly, I could at least hand it back or maybe put a little towards a newer model if the value holds up. I've been looking and a main dealer had a 41 kwh R90 for £9999 which worked out at £112 a month over 24 months, plus £59 battery lease, so about £170 a month... only problem is the 22kw charging on the R90 :cautious:
 

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Zoe 22 isn’t the right car for motorway miles at 70, to be fair. The range is so limited you’d be better off getting a train 🤣
 
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@spz932 where did you get those figures? I never got less than 80 miles on sub zero motorway trips in Zoe. Granted I was in Eco @ 60...
In winter, my LEAF30 is regularly only able to manage ~60miles. But i drive it like i would drive any other car. Heater on nice and warm, and i drive at the speed limit on motorways rather than drafting lorries.
 

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Zoe 22 isn’t the right car for motorway miles at 70, to be fair. The range is so limited you’d be better off getting a train 🤣
Its perfectly fine, so long as it fits the mileage the person wants it for. Its just about sensible expectations. If he goes in thinking "80-100miles" and finds it'll only do 60, hes going to be pissed off. Knowing up front that it will only do 60miles, unless you drive very slowly and freeze to death, is useful.
 

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That's my thoughts exactly, I could at least hand it back or maybe put a little towards a newer model if the value holds up. I've been looking and a main dealer had a 41 kwh R90 for £9999 which worked out at £112 a month over 24 months, plus £59 battery lease, so about £170 a month... only problem is the 22kw charging on the R90 :cautious:
How much upfront and what is the GFV after 24m?
 

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I average around 8000 miles a year (Daily 20-30 mile commute with occasional longer journeys of say 80 miles) I'd also be using it probably once a year to go on longer journeys for holiday etc.
You will know your typical driving patterns better than us, but personally having more range trumps charging speed unless you regularly make long journeys.

I find i often need a small rapid top up to complete a days driving, whereas multi-rapid-stops are extremely rare. If i had a LEAF40 rather than a 30, the number of times i'd need to actually charge it while out and about would drop significantly. Having to mess about trying to find a charger every weekend when your going to visit the folks or day out with the kids etc gets tiring pretty quickly.

To put your proposed cars into context, the 22kwh cars could well need a top up EVERY time you do that 80mile trip. The 40kwh car will do them without issue, leaving the only problem your once-a-year long journey, and for those either put up with the slower charging, or get a hire car.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
£7,500??

Are you sure....? The GFV for them when they were brand new was £4,850.....
Yeah, it did make me wonder, but the cars not there now so can't check. Just looked at another R90 for £11k and for a 36 month PCP the GFV is £2760 which appears to be the polar opposite!?! Surely a 2017 ZE40 will be worth more than that in 3 years time (even at a trade-in price...).
 
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