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40kW Leaf Tekna & 22kW Zoë Q210 dynamique intens
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So following the governments recent announcement that the sale of all new petrol and diesel cars will be banned from 2030 it seems that this ban won’t apply to hybrids.

Is it a coincidence that a raft of manufacturers have just launched “mild hybrids” or is this just a way for them to carry on business as usual?

Does anyone know if mild hybrids will be excluded from the ban?
 

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Nooooooo! :eek:
Hybrids should only be limited to very low power, say 30kW ICE. :devilish:
 

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So following the governments recent announcement that the sale of all new petrol and diesel cars will be banned from 2030 it seems that this ban won’t apply to hybrids.

Is it a coincidence that a raft of manufacturers have just launched “mild hybrids” or is this just a way for them to carry on business as usual?

Does anyone know if mild hybrids will be excluded from the ban?
Do you have a source for that? It has been widely reported that plug in hybrids will be allowed until 2035, but not mild or self charging hybrids. Johnson's speech said:

we will allow the sale of hybrid cars and vans that can drive a significant distance with no carbon coming out of the tailpipe until 2035

Question is what do you define as a significant distance? This should mean PHEVs only, but need to wait for more detail.
 

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40kW Leaf Tekna & 22kW Zoë Q210 dynamique intens
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
we will allow the sale of hybrid cars and vans that can drive a significant distance with no carbon coming out of the tailpipe until 2035
No I had no source, I was asking the community what the definition of a hybrid would be?

I googled it and could not find the answer, so was asking.

It seems to be a grey area, what is a “significant distance”?

Im guessing this will be based on the manufacturers figures?

My old BMW 225xe on paper could travel about 20 miles.

You turn the heater on in winter, you would be lucky to get 7!

Strikes me that this ban could massively water down this legislation.

To make matters worse could this lead to a lot of people buying PHEV’s and then never bothering to plug them in?

Their efficiency is terrible when used like this!
 

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The original announcement in 2017 of the 2040 deadline made it quite clear that hybrids would still be allowed, and in February they moved it forward to 2035.

The alteration to 2030 is covered in the 10 point plan for a Green Industrial Revolution announced 18th November 2020.

we are taking decisive action to end the sale of new petrol and diesel cars and vans by 2030, with all vehicles being required to have a significant zero emissions capability (e.g. plug-in and full hybrids) from 2030 and be 100% zero emissions from 2035.

 

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So the weasel word is "significant". 1, 5, 25, 50, 100 miles EV range on what cycle?
 

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Not even sure it is necessary for several years yet to even define what "significant" means. See what happens and how the tech progresses. Its come a long way in the last 10 years. Who knows, by the end of the decade, anything less than 100 miles on electric for a PHEV could be seen as paltry.
 

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I do wonder what will happen to people like me who tow a caravan. Yes I am sorry about that.

There would have to be quite an increase in range and a reduction in cost for EV's to work in the towing community.

Or perhaps the towing caravan industry will just eventually die.
 

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No I had no source, I was asking the community what the definition of a hybrid would be?

I googled it and could not find the answer, so was asking.

It seems to be a grey area, what is a “significant distance”?

Im guessing this will be based on the manufacturers figures?

My old BMW 225xe on paper could travel about 20 miles.

You turn the heater on in winter, you would be lucky to get 7!

Strikes me that this ban could massively water down this legislation.

To make matters worse could this lead to a lot of people buying PHEV’s and then never bothering to plug them in?

Their efficiency is terrible when used like this!
I think the question to ask is, why would we want zero emissions for a "significant distance"? And the answer is so that we can have zero emissions where we particularly want zero emission.
This could lead to strict zero emission zones where the vehicle can only drive in electric mode. We have the technology, so why not make that a requirement for all the new hybrids. So "significant distance" for the time spent in the zone.
 

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remember, this may be aimed at the 2 problems, air quality in built up areas, and saving the human race from early extinction. Kia's niro hybrid can do around a couple of miles through a town based on a 5 mile journey to that town. I know it harms the planet on the journey there, but it saves a kids life in the town - sounds familiarly like the covid response !!
 

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I do wonder what will happen to people like me who tow a caravan. Yes I am sorry about that.

There would have to be quite an increase in range and a reduction in cost for EV's to work in the towing community.

Or perhaps the towing caravan industry will just eventually die.
Plenty of room for additional battery in your caravan?
 

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I do wonder what will happen to people like me who tow a caravan. Yes I am sorry about that.

There would have to be quite an increase in range and a reduction in cost for EV's to work in the towing community.

Or perhaps the towing caravan industry will just eventually die.
It does seem to be ignored at the moment - not just caravans, but also boats on trailers etc.

Battery life when towing is one thing (an issue which should reduce with time as battery technology advances) but to me the bigger issue is charging infrastructure.

All the charging locations I have seen seem to make no allowance for tow vehicles - I assume you will have to park your trailer somewhere else before driving over to the charger location - cue lots of trailer / caravan thefts from MSAs etc.

You really need a drive through setup akin to a petrol station, but I guess it is cheaper to just have parking bays with chargers.
 

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I am not disagreeing, but I suspect some car companies will be lobbying hard for a different interpretation.
I'd be amazed if they don't.

You really need a drive through setup akin to a petrol station, but I guess it is cheaper to just have parking bays with chargers.
Lorry and trailer parking at MSAs is generally drive-thru anyway. They just need to space them out a bit more and install a charge point at the side. (Gross oversimplification, but the principle is already established.)
 

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I do wonder what will happen to people like me who tow a caravan. Yes I am sorry about that.

There would have to be quite an increase in range and a reduction in cost for EV's to work in the towing community.

Or perhaps the towing caravan industry will just eventually die.
I think eventually this market will be catered for, it will only need one model and all committed caravaners will go out and buy one.

Do they still award a ‘tow car of the year’ accolade? I remember when the Citroen BX won it, mid 1980s I think, and all of a sudden they were on caravan sites all over the place. My dad was a committed caravan enthusiast back then!

There’s the iPace and Model X I suppose, but quite pricey, but other models will be launched if there’s the demand.

It’s an opportunity for the industry as much as a threat, lighter weight caravans or even the towable battery bank idea just mentioned.
 

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I'd be amazed if they don't.

Lorry and trailer parking at MSAs is generally drive-thru anyway. They just need to space them out a bit more and install a charge point at the side. (Gross oversimplification, but the principle is already established.)
I think the challenge will be turning the principle into reality - is there enough of a demand to invest in the chargers?

As electrification makes inroads into goods vehicles I can see things changing, but I suspect they may not be downwards compatible with the ID4 or whatever that is trying to sneak between the HGVs
 

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I think eventually this market will be catered for, it will only need one model and all committed caravaners will go out and buy one.

Do they still award a ‘tow car of the year’ accolade? I remember when the Citroen BX won it, mid 1980s I think, and all of a sudden they were on caravan sites all over the place. My dad was a committed caravan enthusiast back then!

There’s the iPace and Model X I suppose, but quite pricey, but other models will be launched if there’s the demand.

It’s an opportunity for the industry as much as a threat, lighter weight caravans or even the towable battery bank idea just mentioned.
I think they do still have a tow car of the year - will certainly be a boost the first time an EV wins.

VW ID4 and Skoda Enyaq can I think both tow (though neither will be cheap)
 
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