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Would you like to have 22kW AC onboard charger for your Model 3/Y?

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Renault Zoe ZE50 R135 Intens
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello,

I'm trying to convince Tesla to re-introduce dual charger option at least for Model 3/Y. I'm currently gathering community support for my petition (link here) and I also lead a forum thread (link here) with additional information and explanation of my rationale.

If there is anyone who would also be interested in this feature, please support me here.

In short, my personal reasons are the following:
  • I don't have a private wallbox
  • I live just 500m from shopping center with public wallbox in underground grage
  • After 2h additional fee applies for just being connected and also for parking
  • I currently drive Zoe (ZE50, R135, Intens, 52kWh, 22kW AC/50kW DC charger), this car will charge there to 100% within 2h but I would love to switch to Tesla 馃榾
 

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They won鈥檛.

Not just because you want to get free charging without paying the parking charges.
 

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Renault Zoe ZE50 R135 Intens
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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
They won鈥檛.

Not just because you want to get free charging without paying the parking charges.
It is not free. In any case I have to pay for charged energy. Those are additional fees.

I certainly don't want to lead those conversations whether this feature is useful or not. I'm here for only one reason - to find out if there are more people who share my view that this is useful feature and want to support me to push this to Tesla.
 

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Just fill up at your nearest Supercharger and treat yourself to a weekly KFC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Just fill up at your nearest Supercharger and treat yourself to a weekly KFC.
Nearest SC is more than 30km from me, Google maps says 31min drive. I don't want to say that it is completely out but not as convenient as 500m walk :)

P.S. I'm not interested in junk food from KFC :) I'm vegan living on whole food plant based diet and would much rather appreciate a place to workout. I'd suggest to Elon to add to their mission statement also "Transition to a sustainable lifestyle" and offer workout places instead of more food options. I don't think that the biggest problem of our society is lack of food.
 

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While it might be a useful option, it has never been available for the Model IIRC so it cannot be re-introduced... I thought they were only ever maxed out at 11KW?

The challenge you have in this is you need people who will only buy one if it has 22KW... not people who have one already, ie a reason for them to introduce it. Mantra is, majority of charging is done from home and overnight, 22KW charging is overkill on that basis, why do you need to charge in 3-4 hours overnight? Your situation is an edge case and not going to be the norm.

Good luck with the campaign.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
While it might be a useful option, it has never been available for the Model IIRC so it cannot be re-introduced... I thought they were only ever maxed out at 11KW?

The challenge you have in this is you need people who will only buy one if it has 22KW... not people who have one already, ie a reason for them to introduce it. Mantra is, majority of charging is done from home and overnight, 22KW charging is overkill on that basis, why do you need to charge in 3-4 hours overnight? Your situation is an edge case and not going to be the norm.

Good luck with the campaign.
Thanks for your thoughts.
 

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I voted no for the simple reason that in the UK there appear to be few 22kW AC posts that aren't combined with a DC rapid. That's not to say they aren't out there, but they are in the minority. I am sure it would be occasionally useful to have that extra charging speed, but personally it would be rare that I would benefit. Very much a nice to have.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I voted no for the simple reason that in the UK there appear to be few 22kW AC posts that aren't combined with a DC rapid. That's not to say they aren't out there, but they are in the minority. I am sure it would be occasionally useful to have that extra charging speed, but personally it would be rare that I would benefit. Very much a nice to have.
First of all, thanks for your support (vote).

I started a parallel thread here where among other things I explained that in Prague we have a large number of 22kW AC chargers. Based on results of this poll, I understand that if people have their onw private wallbox (seems to be 88,5%), they do not care about faster AC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks to all of you who participated in the poll. OK, I cannot argue with reality...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Over 200 people supported the partition so far. If there is anybody who would be willing to advise me on a popular EV forum/FB group in your own country or biggest EV markets in EU where people might be interested, I will appreciate it.

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I'm the odd one out I guess in the UK. I've got a Model 3 and a Renault Zoe which supports 22kW and I find it very useful because I depend on public charging at home as I park on street. I've also got a 22kW charger at my office and 11kW isn't enough to fill the Model 3 if I've had a busy day on the road. I used to have a Model S with Dual Chargers and 22kW AC is probably the thing I miss the most. Both the cities I spend most of my time in (Edinburgh and Glasgow) have a lot of 22kW AC chargers, in fact I think almost every single Type 2 charger is 22kW! In the city I see the new electric London Taxi's make the most of AC charging as they support almost every single standard you can think of and the drivers I have spoken with say 22kW AC is one of the most important features as it allows them to maintain a meaningful charge during the day. Furthermore, while most chargers are free to use at many there is a time limit of 4 hours parking so it's impossible to get a full charge if I'm low in the Model 3.

We then have remote locations where there are no rapid chargers, faulty 50kW rapids that refuse to work, 50kW rapids that work but then the Model 3 sucks juice to heat the battery resulting in only 30-40kW of usable charge or in busy tourist season a queue of people waiting for a single rapid. Usually in these locations there are at least two 22kW AC chargers so with fast AC charging a short stop gives a meaningful boost in range. We also have the debatable additional wear on the battery from DC charging and heating etc. so I think 22kW AC is a killer feature and should at least be an option for which I'd gladly pay 拢1-2k extra for.

I was tempted by something like this a while back but the cost was over $6000 so a bit of overkill perhaps and also the Model 3 would likely suck 10kW to heat the battery when it senses a DC charge: https://www.designwerk.com/en/mobile-dc-charger-22-kw-mdc22/
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'm the odd one out I guess in the UK. I've got a Model 3 and a Renault Zoe which supports 22kW and I find it very useful because I depend on public charging at home as I park on street. I've also got a 22kW charger at my office and 11kW isn't enough to fill the Model 3 if I've had a busy day on the road. I used to have a Model S with Dual Chargers and 22kW AC is probably the thing I miss the most. Both the cities I spend most of my time in (Edinburgh and Glasgow) have a lot of 22kW AC chargers, in fact I think almost every single Type 2 charger is 22kW! In the city I see the new electric London Taxi's make the most of AC charging as they support almost every single standard you can think of and the drivers I have spoken with say 22kW AC is one of the most important features as it allows them to maintain a meaningful charge during the day. Furthermore, while most chargers are free to use at many there is a time limit of 4 hours parking so it's impossible to get a full charge if I'm low in the Model 3.

We then have remote locations where there are no rapid chargers, faulty 50kW rapids that refuse to work, 50kW rapids that work but then the Model 3 sucks juice to heat the battery resulting in only 30-40kW of usable charge or in busy tourist season a queue of people waiting for a single rapid. Usually in these locations there are at least two 22kW AC chargers so with fast AC charging a short stop gives a meaningful boost in range. We also have the debatable additional wear on the battery from DC charging and heating etc. so I think 22kW AC is a killer feature and should at least be an option for which I'd gladly pay 拢1-2k extra for.
You cannot imagine how glad I am to hear this. Sometimes I really felt like Lunatic on this planet considering how much backlash I received on some forums. If you will help me how I could possibly target more people like you who would support me, I will incredibly appreciate it. But I will probably not offer any other reward except that if Tesla "hears" this request, you will be able to enjoy this feature on this amazing car, that will became even better :)

I was tempted by something like this a while back but the cost was over $6000 so a bit of overkill perhaps and also the Model 3 would likely suck 10kW to heat the battery when it senses a DC charge: Mobile DC 22 kW - CHAdeMO, CCS Combo | Designwerk Group
Honestly, I was googling any possible solution including this one before starting the petition. I would not like to have this in my boot/trunk (whatever is the bloody British word for it:)). If you check example of such a module (link here) it weighs only 18kg (39.6 lb). What is the bloody reason that Tesla is not adding this to M3? It feels almost like a crime to me. Here is how I think about it:
  • Dual charger option for Model S used to cost $2k including installation at the service center, I would gladly pay for it
  • It weighs only 18kg/39.6lb
  • Since Tesla had it for Model S and they do their own in-house development of power electronics, I'm sure that they have developed it's own module that is even more efficient and probably even lighter
  • I still have my hopes that Model 3 that will be manufactured in Berlin with 4680 batteries will have at least 100kWh. Good luck charging this from 11kW (realistically at least 10h).
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'm almost half way on my 1k target before I go back to Tesla. Thanks to everyone who supported me so far. UK contribution is very low considering EVs popularity in this country. If there are still more people like Michael Johnston, I will appreciate your further support.
143501
 

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I voted killer feature.

Onboard chargers are becoming lighter and running cooler and more efficiently with better semiconductor technology. Improving them helps rise the tide of EV conversion.

Not all the world is a backward 3 phase desert. Use 3 phase it saves on copper for the same power delivery.

Here in the UK the most common way more ev chargers are being added to some cities is by 22kW chargers often 4 added for every rapid charger.

While Superchargers are great for long distance trips, slower charging is much kinder for a grid that is rapidly increasing it鈥檚 renewable energy.

I don鈥檛 have a home charger, which the motoring press Says is essential, despite driving an EV for over four years without running out of juice. I like to do something else than munching burgers whilst charging.

I don鈥檛 much appreciate being told to waste my life in city traffic going to a Supercharger when a nearby car park has two 22kW chargers.

Type 2 A/C chargers are cheaper to instal, so businesses that want to attract custom are more likely to install them.

With exponential growth of EV sales, it will be harder to find a ready to use charger or drivers that charge to 80% and leave. So the more chargers the better.

With light weight EVs and motorbikes and scooters on the way 22kW will be the small rapid charger of the future馃榾 PS I鉂ゐ煆峴馃榾
 
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