4+ for £21k, what’s the catch?

1361 Views 23 Replies 10 Participants Last post by Norniron man, 7 d ago

Jimlad

Discussion Starter · 9 d ago

I’m looking to buy an eniro 4+ soon and have an auto trader alert set up.
This one just popped up with reasonable mileage and is “only” £21k.

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

what’s the catch? Are used prices really dropping this hard?

Reactions: 1

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

Cheshirecat

· #2 · 9 d ago

I dont think there is a “catch” as such.
Its a cheap car compared to 3/4 months ago….but as normal…..it is a one way street with used car values…always has been.

If you want one, buy it. It will be worth £10k in 3 years when it will still have 18 months warranty left

Jimlad

Discussion Starter · #3 · 9 d ago

Cheshirecat said:
I dont think there is a “catch” as such.
Its a cheap car compared to 3/4 months ago….but as normal…..it is a one way street with used car values…always has been.

I think this is it…6 months ago this car would be pushing 30k! Normality resuming

Reactions: 1

simon-g

· #4 · 9 d ago

Good value that, this unwinding of the inflated EV prices is throwing some bargains out there.

If you're not familiar with cargiant they're a massive car supermarket. You can get the keys and inspect it at your leisure, run any checks you want (plenty of eniros have been minicabs if that bothers you), any test drive is rather limited and you can forget any haggling.

Reactions: 1

Paul_Moxhay

· #5 · 9 d ago

4 months ago I got a WBAC quote... £34,000

Today... £19,000

In the past 4 months, the WBAC buy price for my car has dropped 45%

Not convinced that the WBAC price indicates anything about the market as a whole. The WBAC offer price is dependent on so many factors that are not directly market-related... e.g. how many cars of that model they have in stock. However, clearly the high electricity prices are causing EV used car prices to drop significantly. It is now more expensive to charge an EV on public charging than if you had a comparable ICE. Even charging at home isn't a lot cheaper any longer. People will be selling their EVs to buy ICEs if it goes on for much longer!

Reactions: 1

prawlin

· #6 · 9 d ago

Wow, astonishing.

Not sure I agree that home charging isn’t cheaper than ICE cars though. Octopus Go is now available at 9.5p/kWh for 4 nightly hours and is likely to come down more in the near future. That's around 2.5p/mile! Way less than any fossil car. However I agree that public charging is at crazy prices currently.

I was talking to a couple of friends recently. They have both just bought new fossil cars. I said I couldn’t understand why they didn’t both take the opportunity to get EVs. They both said it was because lecky is too expensive. I couldn’t convince them otherwise. One of them has just renewed his electricity tariff on a fixed 12 month rate at 33p. Bonkers when it’s coming down soon. £70 exit fee too! Peter

Reactions: 4

Paul_Moxhay

· #7 · 9 d ago

prawlin said:
Wow, astonishing.

Not sure I agree that home charging isn’t cheaper than ICE cars though. Octopus Go is now available at 9.5p/kWh for 4 nightly hours and is likely to come down more in the near future. That's around 2.5p/mile! Way less than any fossil car. However I agree that public charging is at crazy prices currently.

I was talking to a couple of friends recently. They have both just bought new fossil cars. I said I couldn’t understand why they didn’t both take the opportunity to get EVs. They both said it was because lecky is too expensive. I couldn’t convince them otherwise. One of them has just renewed his electricity tariff on a fixed 12 month rate at 33p. Bonkers when it’s coming down soon. £70 exit fee too! Peter

You have assumed that the car is charging every night, on full charge, for all 4 hours. That might be the case for 5 days a week for someone that uses 20kWh a day for commuting (that would be a 40-50 mile commute each way each day). Not many would do that much every day.

That is why you cannot just use those kinds of blanket numbers to justify the costs/saving. Everyone will be different and the range of benefit from being on a "Go"-like tariff will be massive.

Take me for example... I reckon I am more typical. I only charge every 7 - 10 days as I am retired and don't have a commute. That means that I would only likely benefit from Go on 2 or three nights in 10. So yes... a saving when I do charge but I have the overhead of the higher daytime rate for every day of the month. For me going on to any "Go" or EV tariff just isn't worth it and it would increase my overall cost/kWh not reduce it!

I am not saying that no one could benefit from a Go or EV tariff... I am sure many here do benefit. But it isn't a given that a special EV tariff will be cheaper than a standard tariff. It depends very much on how much you use the car and what your electricity use within the home is like.

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Reactions: 2

Jeffrey Cooper

· #8 · 9 d ago

Paul_Moxhay said:
4 months ago I got a WBAC quote... £34,000

Today... £19,000

In the past 4 months, the WBAC buy price for my car has dropped 45%

Not convinced that the WBAC price indicates anything about the market as a whole. The WBAC offer price is dependent on so many factors that are not directly market-related... e.g. how many cars of that model they have in stock. However, clearly the high electricity prices are causing EV used car prices to drop significantly. It is now more expensive to charge an EV on public charging than if you had a comparable ICE. Even charging at home isn't a lot cheaper any longer. People will be selling their EVs to buy ICEs if it goes on for much longer!

Started at a lower point, but that's exactly what's happened to my Niro 4 - as for selling it, the price of ICEs hasn't dropped anywhere near as much, so I can't afford to sell - it would cost me thousands to buy an older diesel drinking polluter - how fair is that !!

Reactions: 1

prawlin

· #9 · 9 d ago

Paul_Moxhay said:
You have assumed that the car is charging every night, on full charge, for all 4 hours. That might be the case for 5 days a week for someone that uses 20kWh a day for commuting (that would be a 40-50 mile commute each way each day). Not many would do that much every day.

That is why you cannot just use those kinds of blanket numbers to justify the costs/saving. Everyone will be different and the range of benefit from being on a "Go"-like tariff will be massive.

Take me for example... I reckon I am more typical. I only charge every 7 - 10 days as I am retired and don't have a commute. That means that I would only likely benefit from Go on 2 or three nights in 10. So yes... a saving when I do charge but I have the overhead of the higher daytime rate for every day of the month. For me going on to any "Go" or EV tariff just isn't worth it and it would increase my overall cost/kWh not reduce it!

I am not saying that no one could benefit from a Go or EV tariff... I am sure many here do benefit. But it isn't a given that a special EV tariff will be cheaper than a standard tariff. It depends very much on how much you use the car and what your electricity use within the home is like.

But it’s the price averaged over 24h that you should look at. Even when I’m not charging in summer (all car charging is from my solar) my go faster tariff is still quite competitive. My average kWh rate is around 31p. That is still a bit less than the standard EPG rates. Anyway I take your point.

OK so rather than a time of use tariff like Go take a look at the Octopus Tracker tariff. Since beginning of the year It’s been very very much cheaper every day than the typical EPG 33p. Today it’s at 16.52p/kWh (Yorkshire) and is steadily creeping down. So thats 4p/mile with car charging as infrequent as you like and cheaper house rate too! Still way cheaper than fossil. Snag is there’s a 6 month waiting list to join that tariff. Peter

Reactions: 2

Rbrian

· #10 · 9 d ago

prawlin said:
But it’s the price averaged over 24h that you should look at. Even when I’m not charging in summer (all car charging is from my solar) my go faster tariff is still quite competitive. My average kWh rate is around 31p. That is still a bit less than the standard EPG rates. Anyway I take your point.

OK so rather than a time of use tariff like Go take a look at the Octopus Tracker tariff. Since beginning of the year It’s been very very much cheaper every day than the typical EPG 33p. Today it’s at 16.52p/kWh (Yorkshire) and is steadily creeping down. So thats 4p/mile with car charging as infrequent as you like and cheaper house rate too! Still way cheaper than fossil. Snag is there’s a 6 month waiting list to join that tariff. Peter

I'm on Go, and I charge my home battery along with my van every day, and once a week my car. I hardly ever buy peak rate electricity - but as ever, it takes a lot of money to be able to afford to save money. £4700 for the batteries, and a few hours of my time. They'll pay for themselves within 5 years at current electricity rates.

Jeffrey Cooper

· #11 · 9 d ago

Rbrian said:
They'll pay for themselves within 5 years at current electricity rates.

I guees you're hoping the war goes on a bit then !!

Paul_Moxhay

· #12 · 9 d ago

prawlin said:
OK so rather than a time of use tariff like Go take a look at the Octopus Tracker tariff. Since beginning of the year It’s been very very much cheaper every day than the typical EPG 33p. Today it’s at 16.52p/kWh (Yorkshire) and is steadily creeping down. So thats 4p/mile with car charging as infrequent as you like and cheaper house rate too! Still way cheaper than fossil. Snag is there’s a 6 month waiting list to join that tariff. Peter

I am currently on a pretty good fixed rate until October but nearer the time of that ending I shall certainly look at alternatives. It isn't a simple calculation though... I'll have to do a decent spreadsheet to help.

Electrickery

· #13 · 9 d ago

prawlin said:
But it’s the price averaged over 24h that you should look at. Even when I’m not charging in summer (all car charging is from my solar) my go faster tariff is still quite competitive. My average kWh rate is around 31p. That is still a bit less than the standard EPG rates. Anyway I take your point.

OK so rather than a time of use tariff like Go take a look at the Octopus Tracker tariff. Since beginning of the year It’s been very very much cheaper every day than the typical EPG 33p. Today it’s at 16.52p/kWh (Yorkshire) and is steadily creeping down. So thats 4p/mile with car charging as infrequent as you like and cheaper house rate too! Still way cheaper than fossil. Snag is there’s a 6 month waiting list to join that tariff. Peter

Agree, I'm on an older Go fix at 40p/7.5p and even with shifting as much as possible to off peak, and even running the immersion, I only get down to about a 20p average cost.
Still cheaper than petrol though. I'm doing more miles now as using the car to part commute twice a week, so think my monthly electric for the car is around £25 if I calculate it at average rate. I'd have been getting through 2 tanks in my old 1.8 petrol at about £60 a go.
Also, by part commuting (driving to a Zone 6 station) I save over £25 on train fare each time, 8-10 times a month and it's pretty much covered the lease cost!

Reactions: 1

Jimlad

Discussion Starter · #14 · 8 d ago

So back to the subject in hand....seems like a good deal but hold on and the deals could get even better?

Jeffrey Cooper

· #15 · 8 d ago

This is my take on the situation as it stands - maybe one person will agree with me !!

There's a lot of anti-EV sentiment (for numerous reasons) at the moment, combined with the dissapearance of huge demand, which drove second hand prices ridiculously high for dealers, who then couldn't sell them, and they stopped buying basically. That has driven EV prices now lower than sensible levels that would have been normal depreciation.

The upshot is that an EV that retailed at £40K (as in the 4+, which shuld really have been sort of £36 or £37K) and should have now been depreciated down to around 60% or 70% after 2 or 3 years ie ££23K to £26K is another 6 or 7 grand less. No delaer would give you that obviously.

Anyway, I think that is a bargain, and actually might be the last as prices start to strengthen again as electric prices come down.

Norniron man

· #16 · 8 d ago

Jeffrey Cooper said:
This is my take on the situation as it stands - maybe one person will agree with me !!

There's a lot of anti-EV sentiment (for numerous reasons) at the moment, combined with the dissapearance of huge demand, which drove second hand prices ridiculously high for dealers, who then couldn't sell them, and they stopped buying basically. That has driven EV prices now lower than sensible levels that would have been normal depreciation.

The upshot is that an EV that retailed at £40K (as in the 4+, which shuld really have been sort of £36 or £37K) and should have now been depreciated down to around 60% or 70% after 2 or 3 years ie ££23K to £26K is another 6 or 7 grand less. No delaer would give you that obviously.

Anyway, I think that is a bargain, and actually might be the last as prices start to strengthen again as electric prices come down.

We're do you get 60 Or 70 ?normal depreciation is down to 45 to 50% after 3years So £36k retail (ignoring the EV discounts back then ) max Value is £18k at 3yrs .We have a way still to drop on used prices . PS I got a 225xe at 2 yrs old(14k miles) at half retail price !

Paul_Moxhay

· #17 · 8 d ago

Wish I waited a year... I would have saved myself over £10K

Reactions: 1

Norniron man

· #18 · 8 d ago

Paul_Moxhay said:
Wish I waited a year... I would have saved myself over £10K

Ouch ! Mind you I just spent £700 on tyres n a service is due (bmw rates !)

Reactions: 1

BrenEV

· #19 · 8 d ago

Spent £28950 on my 70 plate 4 in February.

Thank God my wife is patient

Reactions: 1

Jeffrey Cooper

· #20 · 8 d ago

The bizarre thing is, if you visit the BC Auction site, and do some filtering, you can find that they're still listing CAP clean for 4s at around £19K - so these dealer P/Ex prices are just plain old profiteering off of "we don't really want it" atitudes.

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