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Discussion Starter #1
Interesting to be approached socially today by someone who had a friend who recently bought an i3.

They are loving it apparently and their friend seemed keen to. That it was something "different" seemed a big part of the appeal.

Their friend had driven up to Lichfield Waitrose though to use the rapid charger to find it "broken".

Am pretty sure the Waitrose does not have ccs from when I visited in November. Am guessing the i3 owner may not be clear about different charging standards? The bmw sales people sound generally well informed.....certainly compared to some nissan dealers I spoke to.....but hope they are making current ccs provision clear.
 

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My dealer made it clear to me that there were only two (at that time)ccs chargers in the uk. There's loads more now but they don't all work all the time.
 

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I had a very similar experience with a dealer in Bristol when the i3 first launched. I raised it as an issue with them and they promptly ignored me so I stopped talking to them about our i3 orders :p
 

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To be honest, understanding the UK public charging infrastructure requires immense study and immersion in EV forums!

I found that even writing to car manufacturers and charging operators failed to get clear, unambiguous responses. It was only through a lot of reading that I was able to draw all the strands together and realise that the answer was: a REx!

I also ordered the CCS adaption - in a fit of optimism!
 

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Went to see an E-Up! last Saturday - its dinky! When you ask the salient question about charging facilities - they say with a straight-face - 'no sure, but I know we haven't got one"!
VW salesmen can't even spell CCS!
Without a CCS infrastructure, buying a BMW (or a E-up) looks like pretty foolish!
 
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Without a CCS infrastructure, buying a BMW (or a E-up) looks like pretty foolish!
You seem to be on a bit of an anti-CCS crusade here. We all know that it is on its way, why all the propaganda against it?

Is this really the level of support we can expect from the EVDA?
 

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You seem to be on a bit of an anti-CCS crusade here.
Is this really the level of support we can expect from the EVDA?
Firstly, I am not against CCS and I know nothing about a crusade from me or anyone else. It was simply an objective view as to the number of CCS units out there.
As for EVDA - I do not have any mandate to present EVDA opinions (or policies) in fora such as this. As Kevin notes I have deleted any reference to EVDA in my signature, together with my role in the Low Carbon Vehicle Partnership.
EVDA issues/views are for EVDA fora and LowCVP issues/views are for that fora.
This attitude to demolish people and denigrate their opinions is a sad aspect of chat rooms.
One day we will have activities where views and opinions are calmly exchanged and consensus developed! (IMHO).
 

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CCS is probably in the same stage as Blu-Ray was a few years back.
IMO it's not really comparable with the video disc format wars. CCS is an agreed international standard that will be mandated in an EU directive in the 'near' future (i.e. it will be mandated in 'law' that it's deployed everywhere in the EU). CCS easily scales to ~100kW (more than twice as fast as CHAdeMO) and uses the same protocols as the AC connector. CCS is compatible with the system adopted by the SAE in the US and therefore offers OEMs enormous cost reductions using standardised global engineering.

If you think none of that is important then ask yourself this... will BMW allow CCS to fail?
 

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As Kevin says CCS is, "by decree' - the future - probably the global standard, for EV charging.
Ergonomically its pretty poor - two plugs grafted together! What has surprised me is that there has been no transition planning - no (apparent) thought to any evolution possibilities. However, since CHAdeMO is a de facto standard, those of us with CHAdeMO equipped cars should have few concerns.
The next hurdle is to see if Nissan can swallow their pride - write of billions of investment - and embrace CCS?
 

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VW salesmen can't even spell CCS!
Without a CCS infrastructure, buying a BMW (or a E-up) looks like pretty foolish!
That's all VW salesmen is it Brian? I didn't realise you had spoken to them all to ascertain their spelling capabilities.

As CCS is an option on the BMW i3 I think that statement is totally meaningless at best and highly misleading at worst.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Personally had I been buying my ev now instead of last october as my only car the availability of Chademo would have swung it. The lack of avsilability today for long journeys I want to make is significant.

The financial case I made to myself was to commit to the Leaf for 5 years....the 5 years of payments it will take to own it....on the basis that

1.) It can do all the driving I want and need today.

2.) The monthly repayments are less than or equal to my ice costs at z25,000 miles a year.

This came with an acceptance and hope that ev's will progress within that time but the Leaf will be good enough for my needs. And in 5 years I can review / start again.

If my ev was my second car lack of ccs may be a minor factor.

For me as a one car household it would be a deal breaker.

As an end user I just want there to be one plug....one socket......no confusion.....it is after all as someone once said just plugs and sockets.....!
 

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It's funny as ten years from now it will all change again, all the company's should have just put there heads together and made a global standard. Renault started it by being a pain in the but by making the chameleon charger, you would of thought that because Nissan and Renault are partners they would have backed each other, so you now have 3 rapid types AC type 1/2 and 3pin.
 

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CCS may be mandated, but thats only if your using EU funding, or your country is still a member of the EU. I seriously doubt the EU will be telling Elon he must put CCS on all his superchargers.

Chademo is now also a global standard, would be foolish for the EU to try and exclude a global standard in favour of an EU one, just to please BMW
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Yes agree. We will just end up with the bulk of rapids supporting all standards until the market decides which vehicles survive.....

By which time in the UK I suspect we will have so much larger ranges, and lower level destination charging at most friends and family so will become irrelevent....
 

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By which time in the UK I suspect we will have so much larger ranges, and lower level destination charging at most friends and family so will become irrelevent....
Public rapid charging will always be relevant.

Regardless of the amount of destination charging that is available people will always need the ability to charge rapidly and on route. Public rapid charging will become the de-facto method of charging in public IMO. Sure, most charging will still be done at home and at destinations (as you say) but as car range increases so the need for slower public charging diminishes. However, the rapid charging need remains pretty much the same because rapid charging is not replacing home charging, it is supplementing it for longer journeys. Of course, it is essential if you don't have your own off-road parking and so don't have the option to home charge.

So I see rapid charging, in all the standards, as continuing to be important. I don't see the number of charging stations dropping. In fact, I see them continuing to increase in number regardless of the power or standards. People will always need rapid charging and will need it close by. It will not be acceptable to driving out of your way to charge, just like we don't like to do it now with petrol. I believe that rapid charging will eventually become as numerous as petrol stations are today and then it will be convenient to charge up anywhere just like it is with a petrol car today... no diversions, no inconvenience.

What I think will change though is that the standards will eventually coalesce into one or two and the charging rates will increase. The 50kW we have today will see slow in comparison.
 

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Personally had I been buying my ev now instead of last october as my only car the availability of Chademo would have swung it. The lack of avsilability today for long journeys I want to make is significant.
The problem is that we are in a state of transition. A year ago we didn't have any rapid charge network to speak of, today we have a patchy one with questionable reliability that is mostly Chademo. Next year, who knows. If you are making a car choice for the next 3-5 years, how do you pick?
 
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