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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have noticed two significant changes in the behaviour of my 2019 Premium SE:

It seems that since one of the recall software updates (I don't know which), my Kona will NEVER charge above 6.6kw on AC charging. On either of my two chargers at home or on a public 7kw charge point. It definately used to charge at up to 7.4kw. This is backed up by reading from the charger in that the car will no longer pull more than 30amps. The same charger will deliver a full 32amps to my wife's mini, so I know it is not an issue with our charge points.

In addition to this, I have also noticed that the car will NEVER output the full 150kw performance.
On the power statistics screen the traction motor would show 150kw on full acceleration in sport mode but now, it tops out at 135kw.

I have some genuine concerns that the recent software updates have changed a number of important features of my car without my permission, like taking an ICE car in for service with 200hp and getting it back with only 180hp.

Has anyone else who has a pre-2020 Kona seen this on their car or perhaps could check it out?
 

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Check that you don't have charge rate limiting set on the infotainment system. Also check that the update was applied correctly - an indicator of this is that the "Aux battery saver plus" option should have disappeared from the dashboard menu - if it still appears, the update was not done correctly.
 

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This might also be linked to the battery issues. Charge limits have been set on some cars so maybe the other way of doing it was to reduce the charge rate and discharge rate?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Check that you don't have charge rate limiting set on the infotainment system. Also check that the update was applied correctly - an indicator of this is that the "Aux battery saver plus" option should have disappeared from the dashboard menu - if it still appears, the update was not done correctly.
Thanks for the response, I already confirmed all the configurations in the software, charge rate limits and of course the removal of the battery saver option.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
This might also be linked to the battery issues. Charge limits have been set on some cars so maybe the other way of doing it was to reduce the charge rate and discharge rate?
I agree that this might be the reasoning but I was not consulted.

My point is that if they are doing this, it needs to be properly communicated and they need to provide information when it will be remedied. I purchased a car with a specific set of features. Removing or altering those features means I no longer have the product I paid for. If this is temporary until an all new high voltage battery is provided then fine, let me know the change is happening and also commitment to when the replacement HV installation will be done.

If I took an ICE car in for service with a 2.0 engine but it was returned to me with a 1.8 I think we can agree that would be unacceptable.
 

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I agree that this might be the reasoning but I was not consulted.

My point is that if they are doing this, it needs to be properly communicated and they need to provide information when it will be remedied. I purchased a car with a specific set of features. Removing or altering those features means I no longer have the product I paid for. If this is temporary until an all new high voltage battery is provided then fine, let me know the change is happening and also commitment to when the replacement HV installation will be done.

If I took an ICE car in for service with a 2.0 engine but it was returned to me with a 1.8 I think we can agree that would be unacceptable.
Absolutely right!
 

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If owners were consulted and refused the change then their car caught fire where would that leave the liability? Hyundai, like most manufacturers, seem to be terrible at telling car owners what they're doing and why.

It's annoying to have a specification changed. Hyundai have basically failed at telling owners what they're doing and why. If they have just changed spec of cars for no reason then owners have the right to kick up a fuss and make hyundai return them to the spec they paid for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
If owners were consulted and refused the change then their car caught fire where would that leave the liability? Hyundai, like most manufacturers, seem to be terrible at telling car owners what they're doing and why.

It's annoying to have a specification changed. Hyundai have basically failed at telling owners what they're doing and why. If they have just changed spec of cars for no reason then owners have the right to kick up a fuss and make hyundai return them to the spec they paid for.
I agree that if a customer refused a change that would impact safety then Hyundai would not be held liable.

I would like to point out however that this thread was asking the community if they can help determine if this IS a change that has been applied to multiple owners or if it is just an issue with my vehicle. I was not actually accusing Hyundai of anything, I was speculating that my observations were due to undisclosed changes.
 

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What has the dealer said? I was looking at possibly changing to a Kona so I'd like to know as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
What has the dealer said? I was looking at possibly changing to a Kona so I'd like to know as well.
They have pledged to contact the central technical people for the UK to try to get answers to my questions. They will get back to me next week. Let's see how well that works out.

My dealership have always been very helpful and have never given me any reason to complain.

Meanwhile, anyone else with a pre-2020 Kona who can let me know if they are seeing similar changes would be useful.
 

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They have pledged to contact the central technical people for the UK to try to get answers to my questions. They will get back to me next week. Let's see how well that works out.

My dealership have always been very helpful and have never given me any reason to complain.

Meanwhile, anyone else with a pre-2020 Kona who can let me know if they are seeing similar changes would be useful.
Just checked on my May 2020 Kona 64Kw model, all recalls done (except battery obviously.) Sport mode, pedal to the floor including the kick down switch position, tested three times, 149Kw power to the motor. Now grinning a bit since it's been a while since I floored the beast. So something seems wrong with your car inf0mike. Also checked charging with my Pod Point 7Kw charger, 32 amp draw (measured with AC clamp meter) and car was showing 6.9Kw charge rate. It's always done this for some reason, and seems to relate to charging losses.

Hope this helps you mate.
 

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I agree that this might be the reasoning but I was not consulted.

My point is that if they are doing this, it needs to be properly communicated and they need to provide information when it will be remedied. I purchased a car with a specific set of features. Removing or altering those features means I no longer have the product I paid for. If this is temporary until an all new high voltage battery is provided then fine, let me know the change is happening and also commitment to when the replacement HV installation will be done.

If I took an ICE car in for service with a 2.0 engine but it was returned to me with a 1.8 I think we can agree that would be unacceptable.
Your ICE would have been degrading all the while without you knowing it. Did you regularly ask for chassis dynomometer proof that your ICE car performed as per advertised new specification?
 

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My Kona is a 2019 64kw with all the updates done 2 months ago and it still charges at 7.4 kw as it has always done ,I have not tested the power in sport mode yet.
 

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In addition to this, I have also noticed that the car will NEVER output the full 150kw performance.
On the power statistics screen the traction motor would show 150kw on full acceleration in sport mode but now, it tops out at 135kw.
I have a 2020MY. I have just tested in ‘Sport’ mode. With a battery SoC of 50% and an air temperature of 14C, at 100% power, mine would only pull 134kW so I think there is something in this.
 

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This is a guess based on vague ideas.... I wonder if it’s anything to do with the state of the cell balance, whether the reprogrammed BMS is treating any possible discrepancies with great caution. Not bad enough to raise a red flag, just ease off things a bit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Your ICE would have been degrading all the while without you knowing it. Did you regularly ask for chassis dynomometer proof that your ICE car performed as per advertised new specification?
Natural degradation I would understand and accept. This car has only done 16000 miles and is less than 2 years old
 

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Is it still only delivering 135kw and every time you floor it?
Does the output remains steady from say 30 to 70mph?
 

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When testing, I would imagine that SoC would play a big part in how much power can be delivered to the motor.

But I am just speculating.

Lithium cells have a pretty much linear discharge curve, and when using a lithium polymer cell as an example, it will have a nominal voltage of 3.7 V and 4.2 V when fully charged.

So hypothetically, a motor with 420 V pack will require less current to output a given power level at a high SoC, than it will at say 370 V, or putting it another way a battery at 50% SoC should theoretically not be capable of delivering the same amount of power to the same load as when it is fully charged.

In real-world situations such as an EV, I have never been able to get an answer as to how a car manages this gradually reducing voltage level, but if you are demanding the same amount of power in kW, you’re going to need to pull more Amps from the battery the further down the discharge curve you get.
 

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I
When testing, I would imagine that SoC would play a big part in how much power can be delivered to the motor.

But I am just speculating.

Lithium cells have a pretty much linear discharge curve, and when using a lithium polymer cell as an example, it will have a nominal voltage of 3.7 V and 4.2 V when fully charged.

So hypothetically, a motor with 420 V pack will require less current to output a given power level at a high SoC, than it will at say 370 V, or putting it another way a battery at 50% SoC should theoretically not be capable of delivering the same amount of power to the same load as when it is fully charged.

In real-world situations such as an EV, I have never been able to get an answer as to how a car manages this gradually reducing voltage level, but if you are demanding the same amount of power in kW, you’re going to need to pull more Amps from the battery the further down the discharge curve you get.
Is maximum power much of a thing in a road BEV?
Not aware of any road car where maximum power is a limit on top speed ( they are all limited one way or another).
So we are back to torque limiting the motor which will be current limits at different speeds, temperature limits, cell discharge limits etc.
 

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LEAF N-TEC 62KW
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When testing, I would imagine that SoC would play a big part in how much power can be delivered to the motor.

But I am just speculating.

Lithium cells have a pretty much linear discharge curve, and when using a lithium polymer cell as an example, it will have a nominal voltage of 3.7 V and 4.2 V when fully charged.

So hypothetically, a motor with 420 V pack will require less current to output a given power level at a high SoC, than it will at say 370 V, or putting it another way a battery at 50% SoC should theoretically not be capable of delivering the same amount of power to the same load as when it is fully charged.

In real-world situations such as an EV, I have never been able to get an answer as to how a car manages this gradually reducing voltage level, but if you are demanding the same amount of power in kW, you’re going to need to pull more Amps from the battery the further down the discharge curve you get.
The motor runs on AC so there is a motor inverter and control unit that should enable the motor to deliver full output regardless of the battery volts until a very low SOC is reached.

The voltage will never reach the point where it drops sharply, indicating an empty battery as there is a buffer of a few percent (~5%). (as there is at the top to prevent overcharging which is dangerous on a Li-Ion battery.)

Only the battery temperature would (should) be used to limit power flow, either delivery or rapid charging.
 
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