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Zoe Devotee
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driving 100 miles per day will be prohibitive probably £60+ per week
Cheap when you compare it to the cost of buying a £47k EV and then charging it at home.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Doing the math on my R the car is worth about £23k I will save about £2500-3000 a year on petrol. So over lets say 3 years I should save £7.5k That gets me to £30k still £8k short.
As you said the £47k one is an even bigger shortfall £17k

As you can see I'm still very undecided the Golf R luckily really do keep their value a 2014 will still go for over £15k. I made sure mine was the 306bhp version too which will improve the price.

I keep going back to the 1.0L Picanto sitting on my drive doing nothing :) I do like the Model 3 but financially I do think wait until they become used. Sell my R invest the £23k :)
 

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I think that supply and demand means that used model 3 aren't going to be "cheap" any time soon. I think we're probably 2 years off SR+ breaking the 30k barrier.

However, to take Sandy and your points - depreciation is indeed usually one of the biggest ownership costs of any car. We bought a 2011 Volvo V70 when it was 2 and a bit years old and sold it at 8 years old, 46000 miles later. Fuel cost averaged around 15p/mile, depreciation cost 24p/mile. My used leaf was about 3p/mile to fuel and 2.8p/mile in depreciation. The Picanto at 8-10p per mile on fuel will be competitive in cost since the capital is already sunk.
 

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Zoe Devotee
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Doing the math on my R the car is worth about £23k I will save about £2500-3000 a year on petrol. So over lets say 3 years I should save £7.5k That gets me to £30k still £8k short.
As you said the £47k one is an even bigger shortfall £17k

As you can see I'm still very undecided the Golf R luckily really do keep their value a 2014 will still go for over £15k. I made sure mine was the 306bhp version too which will improve the price.

I keep going back to the 1.0L Picanto sitting on my drive doing nothing :) I do like the Model 3 but financially I do think wait until they become used. Sell my R invest the £23k :)

Eventually the price of ICE will dive, and less economic ICE will tank.

You could consider buying a ZE50 Zoe, its going to manage your 140miles even in winter with zero issues. Say £25k fairly well loaded with CCS option ticked.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Hi Sandy,
yes I saw that Zoe when I was leading through a list of EV's price is certainly right. Seems the sweet spot for the range is about 50kWh its a shame the Leaf EV+ is so expensive and thus into the model 3 territory.
 

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I think that supply and demand means that used model 3 aren't going to be "cheap" any time soon. I think we're probably 2 years off SR+ breaking the 30k barrier.

However, to take Sandy and your points - depreciation is indeed usually one of the biggest ownership costs of any car. We bought a 2011 Volvo V70 when it was 2 and a bit years old and sold it at 8 years old, 46000 miles later. Fuel cost averaged around 15p/mile, depreciation cost 24p/mile. My used leaf was about 3p/mile to fuel and 2.8p/mile in depreciation. The Picanto at 8-10p per mile on fuel will be competitive in cost since the capital is already sunk.
US depreciation is 30% loss after 3 years, 52% after 5 years. Pretty exceptional and yesterday, I put a running cost spreadsheet together compared to typical ICE cars we would be interested in. TESLA won by a huge margin.
Really considering the TESLA now, and running 2 electric cars.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
US depreciation is 30% loss after 3 years, 52% after 5 years. Pretty exceptional and yesterday, I put a running cost spreadsheet together compared to typical ICE cars we would be interested in. TESLA won by a huge margin.
Really considering the TESLA now, and running 2 electric cars.
I would imagine the depreciation on a Model 3 will be very good indeed, my friend has a Model S 75 and that's still worth £37-40k after 3 years which is quite impressive compare that to a BMW, Merc. For comparison my BMW 335d was £43k brand new I bought it 16 months old with 20k on the clock it cost £23k now that's depreciation. On a brighter note its still worth nearly £18k over 2 years latter so it has flattened out.

We all know the ICE is dead and the prices of the high end luxury vehicle is going to go into free fall in the next few years as Sandy said.

I think whatever I decide I will sell my Golf R while the prices are still good, the new version isn't out until 2021 so that's a bonus.

With regards to depreciation the best car/truck was my Nissan Navara I paid £12k for it and sold it for £8k 6 years latter
 

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As an aside- best deal I ever got was 2 fiat 500's for £20, made one out of 2 and sold it after 8 years for £180.....
 

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I would imagine the depreciation on a Model 3 will be very good indeed, my friend has a Model S 75 and that's still worth £37-40k after 3 years which is quite impressive compare that to a BMW, Merc. For comparison my BMW 335d was £43k brand new I bought it 16 months old with 20k on the clock it cost £23k now that's depreciation. On a brighter note its still worth nearly £18k over 2 years latter so it has flattened out.

We all know the ICE is dead and the prices of the high end luxury vehicle is going to go into free fall in the next few years as Sandy said.

I think whatever I decide I will sell my Golf R while the prices are still good, the new version isn't out until 2021 so that's a bonus.

With regards to depreciation the best car/truck was my Nissan Navara I paid £12k for it and sold it for £8k 6 years latter
Funny, when I was doing my cost analysis, I did it against our current BMW X6 but also, against a 3 series with better MPG. Its pretty easy to beat a BMW X6 for running cost analysis so I did it against a car that hold its value relatively well (BMW 3 series) and also has much better MPG than the X6 - Tesla still worked out cheaper, and comfortably so.

As a side point. When you spec up a BMW 3 series to match the performance and features of the Base model Tesla 3 – the Tesla 3 purchase price is still much cheaper than a BMW 3 series equivalent. It might be possible to get the BMW on parity via Carwow or drive the deal but assuming purchase prices are roughly the same after BMW discount, the Tesla then runs away with it on running costs and better depreciation too.

My actualised running costs for the last 4 years in the X6 was £7.6k per year, £146 a week (depreciation, tax, maintenance, and fuel for 13k miles- but excluding insurance, tyres as I've assuming Tesla will be broadly the same) And thats with buying the X6 at 3 years old for £27k rather than the £58k list price.

Tesla model 3 comes in at £4.4k per annum, £85 a week for depreciation, tax, maint and electricity for 13k miles.

Quite a difference! And when you consider those numbers are against a 3 year old used car purchase v a brand new Tesla.....
 

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The USA car market is somewhat different to ours though - historically new cars have been cheap and used cars expensive in the USA compared to here - for example, a 10 year old Honda Accord with 80k miles on it runs just under $10k in the USA, whilst I got £2k for mine here in the UK.

I think we are, as gjweston said, into a period of time where EVs will be relatively low on depreciation and ICE will be even higher. As the march of anti-ICE and particularly anti-diesel sentiment continues and is solely a one-way street of public opinion then think about where public opinion and demand will be in 3 years time then you have to think that trying to flog a 3-year old G20 320d is going to be tricky! In the meantime, while supply on EVs will improve, I think used demand will be strong for what few used EVs there are.
 

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As an aside- best deal I ever got was 2 fiat 500's for £20, made one out of 2 and sold it after 8 years for £180.....
And I thought my cheapest buy was good, but it wasn't that good.

12 month old Defender, bought in 2008 just after the crash for £12k, did 230,000 hard miles in it mostly towing, sold in 2015 for £8,700. It was obviously a bit more thirsty than a Leaf, and even a Gold R!
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Wow soupdragon,
that's some interesting figures as you said the X6 depreciation is flattening out after 3 years but the Tesla is still beating it hands down. I take it back about the luxury ICE free fall happening in a few years its happened.

So buy a model 3 lower running costs, much lower deprecation and the residual will be very good in 3 years.I suppose that will hold for other EV's though.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
The USA car market is somewhat different to ours though - historically new cars have been cheap and used cars expensive in the USA compared to here - for example, a 10 year old Honda Accord with 80k miles on it runs just under $10k in the USA, whilst I got £2k for mine here in the UK.

I think we are, as gjweston said, into a period of time where EVs will be relatively low on depreciation and ICE will be even higher. As the march of anti-ICE and particularly anti-diesel sentiment continues and is solely a one-way street of public opinion then think about where public opinion and demand will be in 3 years time then you have to think that trying to flog a 3-year old G20 320d is going to be tricky! In the meantime, while supply on EVs will improve, I think used demand will be strong for what few used EVs there are.
Unless its a Twizy :) in the UK in the snow
 

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So buy a model 3 lower running costs, much lower deprecation and the residual will be very good in 3 years.I suppose that will hold for other EV's though.
I alluded to our Leaf earlier in the thread.

Bought Nov 2017, 15 plate (2.5 years old) with 13300 miles on it for £11k (from a Nissan dealer, 2 years warranty, servicing, etc).
Sold July 2019, 25500 miles, to an EV dealer for £10650.

I think that as the general public that doesn't read motoring mags or watch motoring tv shows or participate in online car forums starts to come into contact with EVs (because a mate of a mate has one and reckons it's great) then demand will swell rapidly as people make sense of the figures. I think that's already happening, but demand is already holding used prices up significantly.

Except, as you say, Twizys. £50 per month battery lease for that? Really?
 

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Discussion Starter #36
I alluded to our Leaf earlier in the thread.

Bought Nov 2017, 15 plate (2.5 years old) with 13300 miles on it for £11k (from a Nissan dealer, 2 years warranty, servicing, etc).
Sold July 2019, 25500 miles, to an EV dealer for £10650.

I think that as the general public that doesn't read motoring mags or watch motoring tv shows or participate in online car forums starts to come into contact with EVs (because a mate of a mate has one and reckons it's great) then demand will swell rapidly as people make sense of the figures. I think that's already happening, but demand is already holding used prices up significantly.

Except, as you say, Twizys. £50 per month battery lease for that? Really?
That's pretty amazing depreciation.

It will be interesting to see how the E-tron , I-pace and Mercedes EQC fair because their ranges for premium vehicles was not that good approx 200miles for 70k ouch. The E-niro did 250ish.

I suppose most will be used for school runs though.
 

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As an aside- best deal I ever got was 2 fiat 500's for £20, made one out of 2 and sold it after 8 years for £180.....
You beat me as a multiple. The best I have managed was a Citroen GSA bought for £400 from a distressed car dealer and sold six months later for £1100. Happy days!
 

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I suppose most will be used for school runs though.
I'd say that there's a strong argument for that being a good thing.

If they're displacing a VW Toerag, Porsche Manic or Mercedes Glee with a V6 diseasel engine on a 2-3 mile run with no warm up then the air quality impact, particularly around children, is disproportionately higher than pretty much any other use case.
 
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