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Hi, I was doing research into EV's and I still cannot find any clarity about real distance difference between them... especially in freezing temperatures.
Looking into the affordable second-hand EVs available and it's basically just 4 cars: the "Triplets", VW e-up!, Nissan leaf and Renault Zoe. All made before 2016.

Here is what I found so far:
1.) Triplets (citrien/Mitsubishi/pegeot) is the smallest car with shortest range, but it's also the cheapest. It can maybe go 80 km according to some tests. If the extra few thousands of currency you have to pay for the other EV's doesn't really give you that much more range, than maybe this could be a sensible choice?

2.) Volkswagen e-up! It's a few K more expensive, about the same price as leaf or zoe. But the battery seems to be only slightly bigger (up to 100km range). Some people managed long distance travel in this. And apparently it's fast charging works very well, you can do it repeatedly. But there isn't really enough info.

3.) Nissan leaf. This one is tricky. You'd think the bigger battery should give you more range than the other 2, and many people have done road trips with this thing. But also many people claim that the battery becomes bad fast, overheats, cannot be fast charged more than once per day... so if you have to charge this on the trip more than once, does it actually take progressively longer to charge?

5.) Renault zoe. I don't know anymore, it seemed like a sensible car at first, but apparently you can't DC fast charge it. And the faster ac charging is not supported at many stations. So if i can't top it up within 30 mins, then it makes no sense to me even with that bigger range. Maybe i'm missing something.

ALL of them have some issues, but which one could actually arrive faster if you would need to go 130 km in the winter (-3 to +3)? What about 260 km or more? It wouldn't happen more than once per month i think.

I'm not wondering about driving in town, because for a city all of them would be fine i think. I guess i'd prefer a smaller car though.
I think the Volkswagen looks good enough and reliable, but is the higher price justified? And then leaf has sooo many fans, and perhaps longer range, maybe it's worth it? All i care about is reliably getting places...

Any thoughts?
 

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As a rule of thumb think that in cold winter days range will go down to 75% of your usual range.
This of course will depend on how you use the car and how high the climate control is. A simple reduction from 21c to 18.5c will roughly mean an extra 5 miles range.
I can only comment on the Leaf 62 and 30. The range on the 62 with -2c average goes down to 160 miles to a 60mph max speed.
Under similar conditions the 30 would go as low as 70 miles for similar speed.
As I said, I noticed an increase of range when I dropped the temp to 18.5c, reduce the speed to 50mph and you get a lot more miles.
Why I don't do it? I'm not a granny :p
 

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  1. The triplets are getting very old, and there is only limited support if anything goes wrong. Their range is the least, but they do Rapid charge well repeatedly, although you'll have to stop very regularly on long trips if you leave a reserve at top and bottom of the battery and the rapid chargers aren't ideally spaced.

  2. e-Up - the smallest of bunch, very expensive but well made.

  3. LEAF - biggest of the bunch and whatever you have been told can be rapid charge many times in a day (Rapidgate was the 2.0 40 kWh and largely resolved by an update). Because it is bigger it is marginally less efficient, but a 24 will easily do 60 miles between rapids and a 30 at least 75. Some batteries are leased but this can be bought out.

  4. Zoe - depends what model you are talking about. Smaller than the LEAF, and some don't have rapid charging and most only a 22 kWh battery which is leased at a permanent ongoing monthly cost. The AC charging is not as quick as the DC on the LEAF but the time point to point is similar.
As suggested above, you need to ensure it meets your daily needs first.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The daily range would be 20-50 km...
But once a month or so about 130 km. And maybe once every 3 months 200-300? Km.

And the leaf i could get would be with the 22 battery, not 30 and definitely not 40, those are very expensive
 

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The LEAF has no active battery temperature management. Rapid charges cause a temperature gain. Usually 4 or 5 rapid charges are possible before the LEAF refuses to play ball due to a high battery temperature but high ambient temperatures in the summer could affect that.
 

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The LEAF has no active battery temperature management. Rapid charges cause a temperature gain. Usually 4 or 5 rapid charges are possible before the LEAF refuses to play ball due to a high battery temperature but high ambient temperatures in the summer could affect that.
True but don't forget that 4 rapid charges on a 62kw Leaf and you have done 800 miles. U4K is 874 miles long :) and you will need around 15 hours driving time
 

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The daily range would be 20-50 km...
But once a month or so about 130 km. And maybe once every 3 months 200-300? Km.

And the leaf i could get would be with the 22 battery, not 30 and definitely not 40, those are very expensive
Keep in mind that the 24 is almost 5 year old and the least efficient of the lot.
30 will do what you need even in the north and it is more efficient. I don't know in Norway what grants you get for EV's
Both 24 and 30 Leafs have been taken out of production and the 40 will follow soon as Nissan have a project for a 100kw SUV.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
30 will do what you need even in the north and it is more efficient. I don't know in Norway what grants you get for EV's
There seem to be some issues with the 30 according to this post but apparently you can avoid issues by tracking precisely when the EV was built... it's awfully complicated tho.
In Norway there are huge incentives like no tax, no toll, free parking, etc. And so the new evehicles cost the same as elsewhere i guess. I can't afford a new EV in any case. But used cars are "cheap". More than half the price off.
 

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There seem to be some issues with the 30 according to this post but apparently you can avoid issues by tracking precisely when the EV was built... it's awfully complicated tho.
In Norway there are huge incentives like no tax, no toll, free parking, etc. And so the new evehicles cost the same as elsewhere i guess. I can't afford a new EV in any case. But used cars are "cheap". More than half the price off.
There are 2 ways to look at it.
1 - Does the range goes as far as you need?
2 - Longer range means fewer charging periods.

If you can charge on a daily basis at 3kw or 7kw (accenta or Teckna) then the 30 will do what you need. The advantage of the 40 is that you will only need to charge at 100 miles on worst cases opposite 70 miles on the 30.
At the end is all about your budget. I would stay clear from the 24kw as I said is the least efficient. The 40 have a few more things like e-pedal that makes it easier to drive and more efficient.
 

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I missed the fact that you are in Norway, and hence that you need to consider cold range more than is the case in the UK. Take at least 25% of the figures above for cold weather range, and look into preheating the battery where possible.

Dala in the North of Finland is very knowledgeable and knows the Norway market as well - he can be contacted via his business: Dala´s EV Repair | Battery repairs and replacements for electric vehicles
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hmm, i couldn't afford a leaf with 40 kw battery. And 30 kw would be stretching it :p
Basically, are you saying than an E-up! Or a triplet would be better than 24 kw leaf?

Also problem is that everyone mentions different range for these things. Some even say you have to substract 50% for winter.... but i think that different models might have different battery efficiency in winter. But i could not find any information about it yet
 

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Hmm, i couldn't afford a leaf with 40 kw battery. And 30 kw would be stretching it :p
Basically, are you saying than an E-up! Or a triplet would be better than 24 kw leaf?

Also problem is that everyone mentions different range for these things. Some even say you have to substract 50% for winter.... but i think that different models might have different battery efficiency in winter. But i could not find any information about it yet
It's far more complicated than that.
So many factors affecting the range that makes it impossible to give a exact figure.
These factors include (not exclusively)
- head wind
- Speed
- Acceleration
- Elevation delta
- Tyres pressure
- Tyres quality
- heating/AC on or off
- Heater/AC settings (temp)
- Use of cruise control/ProPilot/e-pedal
- dead weight in boot

and more that I can't recall :)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Damn! Yeah, it's complicated indeed.

The budget is up to 10k euros. And triplets cost 5-6k, e-up! 8k, and leaf is 8-9k for 24 kw. Zoe is the same price as leaf.
But if the range is gonna be problematic on all of them anyway, then i'd rather get the cheapest one...

Everything else with more battery capacity is either above 15k or even just unavailable in a second hand market.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
That's an awesome website! But it seems almost too good to be true. I guess they are not factoring it the weather maybe?
According to it, i should be getting the VW e-up xD

Edit: i found the weather setting! And yes, it sems like VW e-up has faster charging time than the leaf! And similar capacity.
 

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Zoe with 41 kw battery starts from 15k. And they don't say if it has DC fast charging or not
They only have AC Quick charge - so up to 40ish kW.

Looks like all of your options are going to need charging for the longer journeys.
 
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