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Hi I run a a small fleet of vehicles for a government agency - to meet government OLEV targets we are switching to hybrids. Fine, but currently our team pay for their fuel on a comapny fuel card, recording business mileage in a month then deducting that from the total and whatever is left is classed as private use and charged to employee at HMRC rate -deducted at source from their salary.

Switching to a PHEV with charge points at home as well as work will massively confuse this. If i charge my car up at home overnight, then toddle off for site visits, but still have to pay the HMRC figure for hybrids (same as petrol engine) - I am paying for the fuel twice

Difficult to articlute, but does anyone understand what im on about r have any experience of the same thing - keen to see any solutions!

Thanks for the help in advance
 

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Hi,

Forgive me if I will sound too critical :)

Shouldn't gov departments lead by example?
With new cars getting ranges around 200 miles and above why on Earth you go for hybrids??
Unless you can justify that all drivers will travel 200 miles on a daily basis I can't accept that.
Having said that, 200 miles each way will explain a lot of things about gov dept. efficiency...
I would start to ditch the flashy ICE cars that ministers have and would go BEV instead and maybe keep a small fleet of ICE or PHEV for the longer journeys if they can't be bothered in travelling by train because trains are for working class people.
Back to your question.
OLEV pays up to £500 for home chargers so they won't have to pay for the whole sum.
RIFD cards cost £20 per year for us common mortals but I would accept that my hard earned tax money will be spent on that.
Maybe your gov colleagues could learn something about how to run the country if instead of hidden away charging point they would mingle with citizens at public stations.

In conclusion.

Ridiculous!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes, my lack of detail led you to (jump to) your conclusions about us, so I will shoulder some of the blame for your tirade - so now let me give you the facts so you can be a bit more informed

We travel 20k miles per annum easily. Diesels would be far better for the team, but there is something called the Central Government Electric Vehicle Commitment that we all have to adhere to by 2020.

Ps there is difference between a minister and a lowly grunt like me, most of the places i work in have never heard of a train let alone get serviced by that or any kind of public transport
 

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Bud, at 57 I don't jump as much as I once did :p
mathematically 20k miles a year will give you 400 miles a week (considering 48 working weeks) or 85 miles a day giving less than 50 miles each way.
Easily within range for a 200 miles range EV, the likes of e+ nissan Leaf, Kia Niro etc.
a 200 miles range gives you 96k miles annum well over what you said.

Still standing by my statement, lead by example.
Never said example should start by "grunts" as you call it but by those jellyfish brain people called ministers...

Again, apologies if I sound a wee bit harsh ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Ok, youre right, im wrong, every situtaion is totally black and white

Last week i did 2200 miles - this week i've done about 50, next week who knows. A Pure EV will not work
 

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Awww giving up already :p
debating isn't an argument I will leave that to the MP's :) . Don't know about other brands but Nissan will offer a replacement ICE car for long journeys.

Why not having a mix of pool cars?
EV's for short and ICE/PHEV for longer journeys.
Keep in mind that PHEV's don't perform better than ICE regarding mpg. although they will claim stupid figures of 100 or 150 mpg you soon realise that this is completely false and you will end up with 35 - 40 mpg on average.
 

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Not sure why you are being subjected to a tirade of complaints about gov spend tax payers money :-(

However, one approach could be to ditch the fuel card and simply claim for mileage. Current HMRC rates for mileage are 45p pm. I am a contractor for MOD; my mileage rate is capped at 25p pm. My company pays the difference, but you can reclaim the tax (20%/40%) on the difference from HMRC.
 

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You need to turn it round, with the employee paying for all faul, and using the aproved rate to refund them for business travel. This also gives people an insensitive to charge at home.

(It get much harder with a pure EV, as the aproved EV fual rate is too low to cover to cost of charging away from home, you can't meter someone home charge point as they may have more then one car using it. )
 

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Not sure why you are being subjected to a tirade of complaints about gov spend tax payers money :-(

However, one approach could be to ditch the fuel card and simply claim for mileage. Current HMRC rates for mileage are 45p pm. I am a contractor for MOD; my mileage rate is capped at 25p pm. My company pays the difference, but you can reclaim the tax (20%/40%) on the difference from HMRC.
That rate is only for a private car used on business, OP is talking about a company fleet.

In reply to OP...

The AFR rate for PHEVs is same as petrol so the drivers could be encouraged to charge (at home) if you ditched the current approach and paid them for business mileage. The risk with giving them a fuel card is they will just fill up with petrol and not bother charging, which hopefully you don't want to encourage? If they complain about having to pay out of pocket then maybe offer a float to cover first month costs.
 

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You need to turn it round, with the employee paying for all faul, and using the aproved rate to refund them for business travel. This also gives people an insensitive to charge at home.

(It get much harder with a pure EV, as the aproved EV fual rate is too low to cover to cost of charging away from home, you can't meter someone home charge point as they may have more then one car using it. )
Snap ;)
 

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Don't assume that for 20k miles a year Tesla Model 3s will cost too much from a lease company, and given the much lower tax, the employees are likely to be willing to sort out charging at home, or drive to a charger.

At least give the employee the option to choose a model 3, even if they need to contribute a little of the tax savings towards the lease.
 

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Keep in mind that PHEV's don't perform better than ICE regarding mpg. although they will claim stupid figures of 100 or 150 mpg you soon realise that this is completely false and you will end up with 35 - 40 mpg on average.
PHEVs can work very well in the right use case.
  • I got 200MPG lifetime on my second Ampera as most of my driving to the office was electric.
  • A friend rarely puts petrol in her Outlander despite 10K miles a year. She has local clients and charges at home after each visit.
Obviously giving someone a PHEV who doesn't plug in and just drives on petrol is greenwashing.
 

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Obviously giving someone a PHEV who doesn't plug in and just drives on petrol is greenwashing
But at least it will increase the number of PHEV on the 2nd hand macket in a few years. The next owner of the cars are likely to use them correctly.
 

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OP, hopefully you haven’t been put off by all the negative comments. In the eyes of the EV zealots it's a heinous crime to run a PHEV as a company car, but running it on taxpayers money too? You should be ashamed of yourself. 😉

Back on topic, could your fleet drivers pay for all fuel and claim back business miles instead? The 1401-2000cc rate is 14p/mile. This would incentivise them to charge at home as much as possible as the real cost would be less.
 

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Maybe calculate the % of business v private miles and use the real monthly fuel cost to charge the PHEV end user the private mileage. This will encourage them to plug in where possible to minimise their fossil fuel spend.
 

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From the research I have put into this - this is what I understand from the PHEV as a company car discussion:
  • If you provide employees a PHEV, along with a fuel card - there is no permitted mechanism for employees or a business to recover the cost of charging that vehicle. Of course you are able to charge at a place of work for free if provided.
  • Given the above, as we have seen over the years and has lead to this apparent hatred towards PHEVs, company car drivers would end up taking a PHEV and a fuel card because of it's lower BIK rates but never plug in - because why should they, it's a fixed monthly cost and it's going to cost more money to keep the PHEV charged.
Now as others have said, if you provide a PHEV company car but make the employee liable for fuel costs that would of course turn the above on its head. Whilst you can still claim back the standard AFR rates on a company car, an employee would want to make that journey cost as cheap as possible so they can benefit from the AFR total, thus charge the vehicle for efficiency.

I.e.
An employee is required to make a business round trip of 80 miles. Let's say they are using a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV which does around 30 miles city in mild weather on the EV portion.

An empty-full charge of the battery would cost an average of £1.65 at home. So that's 5.5p per mile.
The remaining fuel portion of 50 miles, if we say the same city driving means around 35mpg (it's 50mpg NEDC on battery empty). That's £8.38 or 16.8p per mile based on fuel cost of 129.9p/l

So, Journey total is £10.03.
The AFR on the Outlander (2.3L petrol) is 21p per mile, which is £16.80 for the 80 miles. Thus the employee pockets £6.77 in profit.
The same journey entirely on fuel would be £13.40 for same MPG / fuel cost.

This would probably look different on and employers balance sheet and tax bill - that I do not really have much insight into.

HTH
 

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Maybe calculate the % of business v private miles and use the real monthly fuel cost to charge the PHEV end user the private mileage. This will encourage them to plug in where possible to minimise their fossil fuel spend.
That is not reasonable if most private use is local table and most business use is long distances.
 

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  • If you provide employees a PHEV, along with a fuel card - there is no permitted mechanism for employees or a business to recover the cost of charging that vehicle. Of course you are able to charge at a place of work for free if provided.
  • Given the above, as we have seen over the years and has lead to this apparent hatred towards PHEVs, company car drivers would end up taking a PHEV and a fuel card because of it's lower BIK rates but never plug in - because why should they, it's a fixed monthly cost and it's going to cost more money to keep the PHEV charged.
That pretty much sums up my position. I do charge at the office daily but, as my car is fully expensed, not at home.

One thing that often gets forgotten is that a PHEV can be a stepping stone to a BEV. In my case my wife and I were so impressed with the electric drive of my E350e my wife now has an I3s. There's no way we would have a BEV at this stage if I hadn't had the Mercedes as a taster.
 

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Maybe calculate the % of business v private miles and use the real monthly fuel cost to charge the PHEV end user the private mileage. This will encourage them to plug in where possible to minimise their fossil fuel spend.
That is not reasonable if most private use is local table and most business use is long distances.
How about assuming the private mileage, being local to home, is done from home charging? Calculate the business and private usage and calculate an assumed electric journey distance for each home charge. Deduct the home charging mileage from the private mileage before calculating the split of the fuel purchases between business and private. (If home charging mileage is greater than private mileage, then some sort of 'fuel value' refund will be needed for the business use of home charge miles).
 
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