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OK here goes my first post on any forum .......I have recently bought an allied e expert van from Ayr in Scotland took it out for a test run everything fine loaded it onto car transporter and towed it back to the isle of man charged overnight and display read xxxx% xxxxA xxxxV took charger off and turned key display read 100% 0A 282 volts so set off for my first drive battery light came on dash found the dc to dc converter under passenger seat which was only showing 2.7 volts on output further inspection showed melted components on circuit board so ordered a new one from America as could not find one locally .....I charged the service battery and had to move vehicle a couple of times and I noticed a loss of power when setting off ..after two weeks the dc converter arrived I fitted it and set output voltage to 13.4 volts took it for a run and it kept cutting out I then reset output to 13.8 took it for a run and everything seemed fine charged overnight and set off following day van back to cutting out managed to limp it back home watched display flicker between 98% and zero then eventually settled on zero contacted alied vehicles who said they had washed there hands of these vehicles an had no circuit diagrams available I have since managed to get hold of half a diagram for battery pack ( the rear one ) have checked volts in on charge or battery and on emergency and ground to the input on the but not getting any voltages at output to rear battery pack there are no experts I am aware of on island so its down to me I am an electrician so have a base knowledge of contactor's relays etc I have many questions but here is my first few
1 does anyone have any diagrams with there vehicles they could share
2 what software / hardware is needed to speak to rs232
3 any ideas where to start
And if the above fails where does Mike live and how would I contact him
P.s. are you sure it will be alright I am 6 grand out of pocket with only 25 miles driving with four days lying on my back in a puddle on next doors drive where it has failed !
 

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@Stusart clayton I.O.M

This sounds very similar to what @donald and others have described.

We can help but I imagine the costs of transporting the vehicle to us in Worcestershire (WR8 0LX) will not be cheap.

How IT literate are you or do you know anyone that is? I may be able to talk someone through accessing the diagnostics port but if this is the same issue I have now seen on two other Experts then it will more than likely be a battery pack out job which is quite specialist and certainly not something to attempt on a driveway!

All the best,

Mike
 

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Sounds like you have a bad cell, or two. This is why Mike has mine right now, it pulled a couple of the cells too low, BMS spotted under-voltage, power cut back, and eventually the battery management system said 'NO' and cut out. I'm presuming this will require replacement cells at some stage (counts out the ££!) but we are still hopeful some 'charge-nursing' might fix it and bring them back to operation, as the cell leveling seems a bit poor and maybe it'll resolve.

The xxx% etc on the charger is irrelevant. Mine does that too. Just poor programming - the display times out, nothing to worry about.

Bad news about the DC-DC converter. Stuff breaks. (There but for the grace... etc., fingers crossed...)

Edit - just saw Mike's post. He's found a couple of other things with mine that need resolving, you should discuss with him too.

Which e-Expert did you end up getting, Stuart?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hi mike donald i have a basic it set and have an rs232 to usb lead which i use to access my pat tester and my son is quite it literate I have been offered the. Use of a pit to undergo battery removal if needed and have the help of a friend who works on high voltage systems for the supply authority does anyone have any diagrams for these vehicles ? Thanks again stuart
 

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Hi mike donald i have a basic it set and have an rs232 to usb lead which i use to access my pat tester and my son is quite it literate I have been offered the. Use of a pit to undergo battery removal if needed and have the help of a friend who works on high voltage systems for the supply authority does anyone have any diagrams for these vehicles ? Thanks again stuart
OK.

If your son is familiar with HyperTerminal, putty etc get him to connect using 115200 Baud rate and he should get some error messages on screen along with individual cell voltages from the BMS. You'll need 12v power and the key in the 'on' position for this to work.

Afraid I can't share diagrams.
 

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It is a van l2h2 its nice to talk to someone after hitting brick walls for 3 weeks
don't worry, you have found us now.

I highly doubt you'll be able to sort the battery in a pit though if I'm being perfectly honest!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
OK I'll look at diagnostic today ....so there are such diagrams ? Allied told me the diagrams were sent out to each customer but I haven't found any thing from the 6 or 7 owners I have contacted . if it is a dodgy cell or two do you have any for sale. ? And what is the cost per cell ?
 

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Many of the allied vehicles have 160ah thundersky cells, others seem to have an odd 210ah Calb. I have new stock of the Thundersky 160ah. I have been asked to help someone with gaining access to the data on the Battery pack and can offer a netbook with the simple Hyper terminal software and Serial connection, cost is £25+carriage + vat per week (give or take a few days) and you cover the cost of postage and insurance back. There is a £140 deposit by bank transfer, and the balance gets put back once the kit is returned. I can also supply the Netbooks with the software etc for the Citroen C1 BMS at the same cost or if someone has a Curtis controller they want to talk to, then its £40 etc etc with a £450 deposit.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Could anyone advise me if the ignition live to the thundersky batteries should be from first or second click of ignition as I am not getting this pin live to front of first battery ? Have now tried talking to batteries with hyper terminal but still nothing so thinking that this ignition feed is required live ? Thanks in advance Stuart
 

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I think if you have boot-up info come up on the little screen then you should be getting serial data through, but I have also struggled to get a laptop talking to mine. @Mike Schooling had no trouble. So it's probably just something we're not doing right, and he is!! ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I have boot up info on screen ...I have installed driver for USB to serial set all parameters as described baud rate etc and tried two software programs although when I engage the key to position 1 it changes no voltage at the pins to front pack... does this ignition pin only go live when second position of key is selected but with only half a diagram I am guessing !
 

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There should be no connection between the Ign and the Main battery pack. The 12v from the ign goes into the Battery pack control and then turns on the pack. There is no direct connection between the ign switch and the Pack. You have to have the battery pack live to get data out using hyper terminal. If the pack wont come live then it could be an internal fuse, the Master of the BMS has a fuse that can also be used to perform a reset if all else fails, but you will have to get into the pack to get to it, but from your post it would appear you already have. If you have any of the cables from the pack disconnected then you wont get anything coming live.
 

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I don't think the pack does come 'alive' before you get data. On the contrary, the BMS sends data about the cells before the pack contactors activate, which if you think about it is what you want for a safe protocol. Basically, the BMS runs on the 12V system and doesn't require the main pack contactors to be closed.

I did wonder about this because I was seeing battery voltage reports but no 'clonks' from the contactors, which got me worried for a while that maybe the HV battery pack had stuck 'live'. It hadn't, it was the BMS calculating a pack voltage from each cell individually.

It is because of this that mine is currently 'locked out' as the BMS is detecting low cells before the sequence of steps completes, so the main pack isn't activating. Or something like that. Mike has the details.

What should happen is that as you turn to the first key position, you get the bootup text on the small display. You should then hear a few 'clonks' as the battery contactors close, then the display goes to 'STOP' with a pack voltage/% showing and the red LED on. At that point, a few seconds after the first position, you should rotate the key to the second position and release, and 'STOP' should turn to 'N' (or 'D'/'R' if you've left it 'in gear'!) and you get a green LED.

If you don't get bootup text, then you probably aren't going to get any comms info either, I'd guess. (The BMS/info screen was still running at less than 9V from the 12V battery on mine, so there is a fair degree of tolerance to that, though the contactors might not activate that low.)

If you get boot-up text but no clonks, then the system has detected something it doesn't like about the set-up/battery/system isolation, etc..

If you get boot-up, clonks and also get the 12V battery system voltage jump to +14V then the HV battery pack has activated.
 

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The BMS has a constant feed, but the pack doesnt come live as a power source until the ign signal tells the main BMS to do so, clonks etc as the contactors come live. It has a distributed system, with the slaves going to the main unit. Yes its live all the while, my data suggests its fed from one section of the pack, same as the Modec BMS which it is basically the same as.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I'll try to explain better the hv interface cable terminals as follows
A pos power hv
B can hi +
C can low-
D vehicle ignition input opto isolated 12 v ignition active
E 12 volt 12 volt vehicle battery
F vehicle emergency off input opto isolated 12 volt = emergency off is inactive( OK)
G neg power hv
H vehicle 0v return 0v
Testing at pins into front battery with ignition at first click
D no volts
E 12 volts
F 12 volts
H ground
No clunks from contactor's no volts on hv
So my question is ,is the ignition live to close contacts and supply BMS or is it supplied by controller when ignition hits start press of the ignition live if D should be live from ignition then I might be looking in the wrong place as the dc dc converter may have fried something on the ignition circuit and have nothing to do with the battery or controller ? Thanks again stuart
 

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My guess would be that the ignition key, as a switch of a signal line, merely grounds/activates one of the BMS/system IOs, so in effect nothing at all changes in the HV system other than to tell the system that you want to go. However, if it detects a fault it is going to do nothing, so nothing is what you see happen. I don't know if that is right, but it might explain why you see nothing.

The only other tell-tale that anything has happened on mine when you turn the ignition 'on', other than the dashboard things, is that the power steering pump starts up. Do you hear this start up and run when you turn the key?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yes all switch relays tested in main connection under bonnet and power steering heater etc fire up ...so what tells contactor's to close BMS or ignition live because I have 0 volts on ign live ?
 

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Actually the bms/contactors stay alive after the key has been removed on these. There is a parameter to set the length of time. It is to allow balancing to take place. If you remove 12v you should hear the contactors open (if all is good).

It's more likely a laptop/rs232/serial config issue rather than no data being transmitted. Can you try another serial source or an emulayor?
 
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