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Discussion Starter #1
Hi folks. First post on here.
I've just bought an expert converted by allied electric vehicles.
It's been sat unplugged, unloved for several years in a garage and I've towed it home and am wondering where to start. It's obviously "dead" as far as dashboard lights go.
I'm reluctant to plug it straight in and see what happens.
I'm thinking of replacing the 12v battery/batteries and slowly waking it up.
Any advice would be welcomed.
I'm a technician in the renewables industry with a background in Marine engineering.
I've owned a Zoe and the wife drives an outlander Phev.
Thanks in anticipation.
Ian
 

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Simply don't bother wasting your time or money.

Hopefully you paid so little for it that some other people with these that might be interested in parts.

My fundamental understanding, as far as it goes, is that Allied defrauded anyone who bought these from them, the Axeon battery packs they put together were sold to them on the basis that they would not be resold as vehicles. They sold them at auction without any clarifications to that effect, as far as I am aware, and purchasers passed them on without being aware of that.

What I do know is that I put due diligence in by contacting them and making sure they committed to servicing the thing and they said they could and they had parts. I consider that to be a flat out lie. They dumped any manufacturers responsibility like a lead balloon.
 

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Oh dear another one. OP search the forum we've been through this several times before. Reject the vehicle now if you still can.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for your replies.

🤣yes, I've been through the forum a bit and I'm not hugely surprised by these answers!

Background: I mess about with land rovers a bit. I've started building a long wheel base series 3. My plan is to make it either a hybrid or fully electric.
V8 petrol onto standard gearbox/transfer box with an electric motor driving into the transfer box PTO. Apparently land rover did this as an experiment in the 90s for the army to creep round northern Ireland.

The expert was bought mainly for parts - motor(possibly) - batteries, ancillaries, etc. But as it's complete at the moment, I'm wondering how best to wake it up and see what exactly I have. Even if I scrap it, I doubt I'll lose out financially.
Any dos and don'ts are welcomed.
 

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Don't bother with it - get rid while you can!

We have seen way more than 20 and have rejected any servicing or troubleshooting of these now for a couple of years.

The engineering is poor and you cannot get spares even if you can find the problem.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
 

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Hi Ian Just fit the largest FULLY CHARGED battery you have available, even with just jump leads, but disconnect original battery first, and turn on, position 1 You should here some relays kick in, turn key again as if starting a conventional car, and then release more relays, and humming, check power steering, waggle wheel. Check battery pack voltage on screen, and also check with a meter that auxiliary battery is also being charged. If main pack is over 250v put in gear and drive 6" if connected to jump leads, Either way, running or not, turn off, and attempt to charge. Everything that has been said about them is right, but if you want to cut your teeth on electric, its an ideal candidate, it appears you will be permanently under the bonnet. But if its a mistake, I would still be interested. good luck. Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks Dave.
I put a battery on it yesterday, woke it up and have discovered that the key needs programming. It's a new key as the old ones were lost and although it's been cut, it's not been programmed so the immobilizer is not allowing anything else to happen.
That aside, the main pack is showing 82%charge at 272volts and the brakes and power steering are working. Dc-dc isn't but that may be an immobilizer issue.
I think I'll get the key programmed and get a laptop onto it before I go further.
 

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Thanks Dave.
I put a battery on it yesterday, woke it up and have discovered that the key needs programming. It's a new key as the old ones were lost and although it's been cut, it's not been programmed so the immobilizer is not allowing anything else to happen.
That aside, the main pack is showing 82%charge at 272volts and the brakes and power steering are working. Dc-dc isn't but that may be an immobilizer issue.
I think I'll get the key programmed and get a laptop onto it before I go further.
There was no programming option on my key. I just had a regular blank cut* and it was fine. Only lost remote opening.

The way most of these things work is that the security feature is embedded into the ECU. As this does not have an original ECU then I'd wager this is probably some failure of the 'defeat' mechanism Allied put in place to circumvent the usual chassis control unit.

You can give it a go, but when you plug into OBD I think you will find the OBD plug is not actually attached to anything!!

*(only one key provided ... I should have walked away from 'just one key'. All the signs were there, I was an idiot buying it. I had promises of repair options, which came to naught.)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
9 pin Cable arrived today,
Looks at the very least like a couple of dud cells - I take I won't be driving it off the trailer under it's own steam!
Input welcomed....
ERROR LOCKOUT ACTIVE

!!! ERROR_CELL_VOLTS_LOW

Warning Cell=77,[2.165 volts, 7.9 deg]
!!! ERROR_CELL_VOLTS_LOW_LOW (CRITICAL ERROR)

!!!ALARM Cell=77,[2.165 volts, 7.9 deg]

-------- ======== --------
Cassette serial number: 24
Slv:1 sts = 0[0] Rx 266, bad 0
Slv:2 sts = 0[0] Rx 266, bad 0
Slv:3 sts = 0[0] Rx 266, bad 0
Slv:4 sts = 0[0] Rx 266, bad 0
Slv:5 sts = 0[0] Rx 266, bad 0
Slv:6 sts = 0[0] Rx 266, bad 0
Slv:7 sts = 0[18] Rx 266, bad 0
State = ERROR
Total volts 273.3 V
Total Current 0.000 A
SOC 81.4 %
Charge 113.991 Ah
Errors: 00000000000000001100000000000100 [!!ALARM ERROR_CELL_VOLTS_LOW_LOW]
Critical errors: 010000000000
Safety faults: 00000000[ ]
Last error No 18
balance timer 0
Balance off (low cell voltage!)
Charger PWM: 0
CC SOC: 32757, SE SOC: 26690.C flag: 1.
Max Volts 3.295 at cell [52] Min Volts 2.165 at cell [77]
Max cell temp 9.3 at cell [2] Min Temp 5.8 at cell [40] ADC I main:5402 au x:5452
ADC I inst main:21632 aux:21792
ADC I calc main:0.000A aux:0.030A (5 second peak:0.468)
Used charge (soft)=-0.000 Ah
Box temps: 12, 6, 6, 6,
Average Box Temp 7.5 ETI 109611495 sleep 109625629
Accumulated charge = 36880 Ah, accumulated discharge = 36815 Ah
109611495,3.264,3.255,3.250,3.259,3.267,3.285,3.271,3.263,3.282,3.288,3.255,3.28 7,3.208,3.266,3.245,3.285,3.285,3.277,2.817,3.283,3.196,3.289,3.287,3.266,3.282, 3.273,3.252,3.279,3.283,3.242,3.253,3.287,3.282,3.286,3.220,3.294,3.284,3.273,3. 286,3.255,3.287,3.288,3.255,3.285,3.289,3.289,3.288,3.286,3.237,3.287,3.277,3.29 5,3.263,3.285,3.282,3.285,3.266,3.256,3.287,3.279,3.286,3.192,3.284,3.281,3.280, 3.272,3.246,3.267,3.250,3.287,3.281,3.284,3.287,3.282,3.285,3.268,2.165,3.285,3. 260,3.260,3.288,3.289,3.295,3.284,9.0,9.3,9.0,9.0,9.0,9.0,9.0,9.0,9.0,9.0,9.0,9. 0,7.3,7.3,7.3,7.7,7.3,7.3,7.7,7.3,7.3,7.3,7.3,7.7,6.3,6.7,6.7,6.7,6.7,6.7,6.7,6. 7,6.7,6.7,6.3,6.7,6.2,6.2,6.2,5.8,6.2,6.2,5.8,6.2,6.2,6.2,6.2,5.8,6.8,6.4,6.8,6. 4,6.8,6.4,6.8,6.4,6.8,6.4,6.4,6.4,7.0,7.3,7.3,7.0,7.3,7.3,7.3,7.7,7.0,7.0,7.3,7. 0,7.5,7.9,7.5,7.5,7.9,7.1,7.5,7.9,7.5,7.5,7.5,7.9,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.000,113.991,32757,81 4
 

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Discussion Starter #11
.....and if I drop the battery to try and balance/replace cell 77, is it possible to wire a harness alongside the BMS to allow manual balancing without dropping the battery pack next time?
I've not looked inside the battery pack yet and not seen a wiring diagram so this may be unworkable.

Thoughts from you experienced folk are welcomed.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Bus is in the shed, what's the box behind the rear axle? Is it more batteries? If it is, will cell 77 be in there?
 

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Hi there, we have a Peugeot partner tepee allied electric conversion.
Ours is good.
We have a brochure with ours which gives details of how to drive it and how to balance the battery pack, and the concept is that you charge it up to full. Then run it 5 miles
Charg it back to full.
Run it ten miles.
Charge it back to full.
Run it 15 miles.
Charge it back to full.
And so on, in 5 mile increments, untill you reach 80. As that's the max range you have. There is a 20% limp mode. So the last 20 % you don't really have, in effect, thats there so you can limp to the nearest charge point.
And you will know when you got that limp mode, the car just bleeps and cuts off completely. No power at all.
And you need to start the car as you would normally. And you won't be able to move much faster than 5-10mph, (limping literally!!)
So it's best to avoid the 20 mark at all costs.
I would recommend doing the balancing at least 3 times!!
With it sitting for a few years!!!
What I can't work out is how it can have 82% and 272v after sitting for a few years!!!
Anyway I would get on with the balancing of the batteries firstly.
After checking everything first if course.
Just driving round some spare ground near to your house or something, for a day or 2 to see how she performs.
Then start the balancing.
If you are just going to use it for parts, then please let me know!
As I would be Very interested indeed.
Thank you Very much indeed.
And let me know how you get on.
Any advice we can give you, we will.
 

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The balancing algorithm is absolutely terrible for odd low cells. It tries to get rid of the extra energy in every other cell at the rate of a few mA. There is absolutely and utterly zero chance of it ever recovering those cells by itself.

You have to drop the pack and charge them up individually.

I can advise you on the best way to do that, if you are inclined to get the battery off and want to ask me, but you will need a cell charger with programmable charge rate. Once you have such a charger, and are prepared to take the battery pack down, let me know before you do and I'll tell you what to do next.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks for the info. Pack unbolted and resting on castors. Have just started jacking the rear of the car up with a view to getting it high enough to draw the cells out rearwards.
Now is the time for advice if you have it, about to try and unplug the pack....
 

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It involves charging the pack up in a certain way before you remove it.

Did you fully charge the pack before you did this?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Haven't tried charging the pack. Am I right in thinking it won't charge with such a duff cell?
 

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I don't know. What happened when you plugged the charger in, what did the screen say?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I Didn't try the charger. I waited until I got the laptop to talk to it, discovered the low cell and decided against plugging it in until they were a bit more balanced - too many stories of lithium cells getting hot and bothered on the internet.
Pack is now out. Not too tricky a job.
I'll post a couple of pictures of the story so far once I figure out how.
There's still lots of rusty screws to remove to get the cover off - think I'll leave that until tomorrow.
What sort of charger do you recommend for individual cell charging?
 

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You really need a proper li cell charger, one where you can set the charge rate and the cut-off voltage.

One way or another you need to get that 2.1V cell above 2.5V asap. First you will have to check it to see if it has started to swell or not, are the sides bulging out on it? If so, get it out of the pack swiftly before it mechanically damages its neighbours.
 
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