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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Astongate: fake emission figures, an embattled carmaker and a sock puppet PR company
Published on November 29, 2020
Michael Liebreich
 

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I guess the mail, telegraph, and the times may be a bit slower to jump on the "was this fake news" story than they were to jump on the original.
Maybe they'll dig a bit harder on the rebuttals to try and find reliable sources.
Maybe they'll just pretend it never happened.

There's that grain of truth somewhere deep underneath of course. The polestar seems to be rather high intensity to manufacture according to their own calculations.
It's a fairly common thread in these things for the detractors to somehow miss adding up the whole life emissions of ICE cars properly. Like it's somehow very easy to have forgetten petrol has to be extracted refined (using cobalt) and transported before you can use it, while your busy pointing out that it takes energy to make EVs and that cobalt has to be mined to make batteries.
 

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Robbo on fully charged is always banging on about the costs of getting petrol to the pumps. He's absolutely right, the industry has got quite good at it, but the emissions are significant before the cars are fueled.
 

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Also, total emissions are somewhat irrelevant. It’s about local emissions and air quality in urban areas. Nobody really cares if the manufacturing process chucks out the same amount of CO2 in the middle of a Russian tundra.
 

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Also, total emissions are somewhat irrelevant. It’s about local emissions and air quality in urban areas. Nobody really cares if the manufacturing process chucks out the same amount of CO2 in the middle of a Russian tundra.
We very much need to care about that. CO2 is not a local pollution issue anyway, that’s NOx primarily, and various exhaust particulates.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
1. Interesting, I didn't know that about cobalt, as to its use in petroleum refining, but I see this to back up what you were saying:


2. Over the years I've seen some of these attempts to attack EVs on the basis of lifecycle analysis or on the basis of energy-harvesting-to-wheels, and perhaps the most basic way the attack is made unfair is to try to manipulate the fossil fuel side of the argument so that the true numbers of the fossil fuel are not clear. One of the things about petroleum production, refining and distribution is that, from what I recall, it requires a lot of electricity. It's just been too long and I'm not sure of what the numbers would be, but I wonder how much electric power input can be reasonably assumed per gallon.


I guess the mail, telegraph, and the times may be a bit slower to jump on the "was this fake news" story than they were to jump on the original.
Maybe they'll dig a bit harder on the rebuttals to try and find reliable sources.
Maybe they'll just pretend it never happened.

There's that grain of truth somewhere deep underneath of course. The polestar seems to be rather high intensity to manufacture according to their own calculations.
It's a fairly common thread in these things for the detractors to somehow miss adding up the whole life emissions of ICE cars properly. Like it's somehow very easy to have forgetten petrol has to be extracted refined (using cobalt) and transported before you can use it, while your busy pointing out that it takes energy to make EVs and that cobalt has to be mined to make batteries.
 

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Stories like this one are lapped up by news outlets and the general population simply because it’s what the majority of people want to hear.

The fact remains that large numbers of people remain to be convinced about EVs, particularly if you’re still cock a hoop about your latest ICE purchase, and stories like this just reinforce your amazingly clever buying prowess.

I won’t expect to see the other side of the story with the same prominence anytime soon.
 

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I think that the name of that publication is enough to put most sceptics off believing its content. :devilish:

Ultimately we cannot continue the amount of travel that we have been used to consuming over the past 30 years, if only because of the need to equalise consumption across the world's population without increasing the total consumption which that we in the profligate "developed world" have had an unfair share of to date. But how Aston can have the cheek to lecture us on excessive consumption when their products are the most extreme is beyond me.
 

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But how Aston can have the cheek to lecture us on excessive consumption when their products are the most extreme is beyond me.
Nonsense. I think you’ll find Aston Martin cars are small, compact and low emission, like this highly representative model:
137858
 

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can you imagine.....


Mad enough for you?



I wouldn't fancy changing the plugs on that .....

Nonsense. I think you’ll find Aston Martin cars are small, compact and low emission, like this highly representative model:
I blame the tractor manufacturer (David Brown - hence the DB in the model names) that took them over in the 1950's, the originals were small and light by the standards of the time.

 

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One of the things about petroleum production, refining and distribution is that, from what I recall, it requires a lot of electricity
One here in the UK uses enough electricity to power a large town. (Coventry IIRC) See Fully Charged for source.
 
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