[jlsoaz]

Astongate: fake emission figures, an embattled carmaker and a sock puppet PR company

You may have seen the news story last week about a new report purporting to show that it takes 50,000 miles before an EV's emissions beat those of a petrol car. First of all, the figures were comprehensively debunked - the correct figure is nearer 16,000 miles - then, over the weekend I uncovered ev

www.linkedin.com

Astongate: fake emission figures, an embattled carmaker and a sock puppet PR company
Published on November 29, 2020
Michael Liebreich

 

[BornAgainEcoWarrior]

Let's see who else picks up the story?

Questions raised over 'misleading' report into electric cars

The report contained disputed claims about the carbon footprint of electric vehicles

inews.co.uk

 

[BornAgainEcoWarrior]

Did Aston Martin publish fake emission numbers about EVs?

A report claims that EVs must travel 50,000 miles before its carbon footprint betters an ICE vehicle. Was the report a sleight of hand by Aston Martin?

electrek.co

 

[andyswarbs]

The power of this political analysis I find very convincing. Back that with the technical analysis at

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332464525602410498

and this is quite a story.

Of course the original "fabrication" wouldn't be a story if it hadn't been widely reported in major press outlets.

 

[BornAgainEcoWarrior]

I guess the mail, telegraph, and the times may be a bit slower to jump on the "was this fake news" story than they were to jump on the original.
Maybe they'll dig a bit harder on the rebuttals to try and find reliable sources.
Maybe they'll just pretend it never happened.

There's that grain of truth somewhere deep underneath of course. The polestar seems to be rather high intensity to manufacture according to their own calculations.
It's a fairly common thread in these things for the detractors to somehow miss adding up the whole life emissions of ICE cars properly. Like it's somehow very easy to have forgetten petrol has to be extracted refined (using cobalt) and transported before you can use it, while your busy pointing out that it takes energy to make EVs and that cobalt has to be mined to make batteries.

 

[idiotzoo]

Robbo on fully charged is always banging on about the costs of getting petrol to the pumps. He's absolutely right, the industry has got quite good at it, but the emissions are significant before the cars are fueled.

 

[TJEV]

Also, total emissions are somewhat irrelevant. It’s about local emissions and air quality in urban areas. Nobody really cares if the manufacturing process chucks out the same amount of CO2 in the middle of a Russian tundra.

 

[BornAgainEcoWarrior]

Yep in ICE well to wheel efficiency is never a thing, nothing is counted before it comes out a nozzle on a forecourt. Oh but put a battery in it and suddenly someone wants to know how much emissions the electricity generates and the battery manufacturing, and transporting the battery from china...

 

[BornAgainEcoWarrior]

Also, total emissions are somewhat irrelevant. It’s about local emissions and air quality in urban areas. Nobody really cares if the manufacturing process chucks out the same amount of CO2 in the middle of a Russian tundra.

Well I think we do have to care.

 

[idiotzoo]

Also, total emissions are somewhat irrelevant. It’s about local emissions and air quality in urban areas. Nobody really cares if the manufacturing process chucks out the same amount of CO2 in the middle of a Russian tundra.

We very much need to care about that. CO2 is not a local pollution issue anyway, that’s NOx primarily, and various exhaust particulates.

 

[jlsoaz]

1. Interesting, I didn't know that about cobalt, as to its use in petroleum refining, but I see this to back up what you were saying:

Desulphurisation

Cobalt plays a vital role in catalysing the removal of sulphur from oil, contributing to a more sustainable society.

www.cobaltinstitute.org

2. Over the years I've seen some of these attempts to attack EVs on the basis of lifecycle analysis or on the basis of energy-harvesting-to-wheels, and perhaps the most basic way the attack is made unfair is to try to manipulate the fossil fuel side of the argument so that the true numbers of the fossil fuel are not clear. One of the things about petroleum production, refining and distribution is that, from what I recall, it requires a lot of electricity. It's just been too long and I'm not sure of what the numbers would be, but I wonder how much electric power input can be reasonably assumed per gallon.

I guess the mail, telegraph, and the times may be a bit slower to jump on the "was this fake news" story than they were to jump on the original.
Maybe they'll dig a bit harder on the rebuttals to try and find reliable sources.
Maybe they'll just pretend it never happened.

There's that grain of truth somewhere deep underneath of course. The polestar seems to be rather high intensity to manufacture according to their own calculations.
It's a fairly common thread in these things for the detractors to somehow miss adding up the whole life emissions of ICE cars properly. Like it's somehow very easy to have forgetten petrol has to be extracted refined (using cobalt) and transported before you can use it, while your busy pointing out that it takes energy to make EVs and that cobalt has to be mined to make batteries.

 

[6652]

Stories like this one are lapped up by news outlets and the general population simply because it’s what the majority of people want to hear.

The fact remains that large numbers of people remain to be convinced about EVs, particularly if you’re still cock a hoop about your latest ICE purchase, and stories like this just reinforce your amazingly clever buying prowess.

I won’t expect to see the other side of the story with the same prominence anytime soon.

 

[BornAgainEcoWarrior]

Quick scan this morning, only one more link came up for me...
Seems only a select few are interested that the report was complete tosh.

Aston Martin says Electric Cars Aren't Green Enough

A new report says it takes 50,000 miles until they are cleaner than gas. It's wrong.

www.treehugger.com

 

[dk6780]

I think that the name of that publication is enough to put most sceptics off believing its content.

Ultimately we cannot continue the amount of travel that we have been used to consuming over the past 30 years, if only because of the need to equalise consumption across the world's population without increasing the total consumption which that we in the profligate "developed world" have had an unfair share of to date. But how Aston can have the cheek to lecture us on excessive consumption when their products are the most extreme is beyond me.

 

[idiotzoo]

But how Aston can have the cheek to lecture us on excessive consumption when their products are the most extreme is beyond me.

Nonsense. I think you’ll find Aston Martin cars are small, compact and low emission, like this highly representative model:

 

[cah197]

Nonsense. I think you’ll find Aston Martin cars are small, compact and low emission, like this highly representative model:
View attachment 137858

Is that the V8 version?

 

[idiotzoo]

Is that the V8 version?

can you imagine.....

 

[dk6780]

can you imagine.....

Mad enough for you?

I wouldn't fancy changing the plugs on that .....

Nonsense. I think you’ll find Aston Martin cars are small, compact and low emission, like this highly representative model:

I blame the tractor manufacturer (David Brown - hence the DB in the model names) that took them over in the 1950's, the originals were small and light by the standards of the time.

 

[jlsoaz]

The story is gaining some momentum:

Aston Martin in row over 'sock puppet PR firm' pushing anti-electric vehicle study

Report disputing green benefits of EVs attributed to company registered to wife of carmaker’s director

www.theguardian.com

 

[Neilew]

One of the things about petroleum production, refining and distribution is that, from what I recall, it requires a lot of electricity

One here in the UK uses enough electricity to power a large town. (Coventry IIRC) See Fully Charged for source.