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Madam Legurtz
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I think there are a few EV Motorcycle riders on this forum. Although predominantly Car chat on here I think thats a reflection of the current state of EV PTWs. Still running behind Cars in becoming mainstream.

I have a Zero SR 13.0 that I use to commute regularly to London, a journey of 27 miles each way. The advertised range of circa 85 miles per charge is completely realisable, going by the residual charge left when I get home each night. Using about 60% charge for the round trip leaving sufficient for another 30 or so miles.

I also have a Pedal Assist cycle that I use occasionally around the home area.
 

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Madam Legurtz
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So what made you move to electric? Environment, (potential) cost savings or something else?
Back in 2007 it was curiosity having seen a number of YouTube blogs about how others had converted ICE to EV using lead acid batteries of the day. I accidentally discovered Vectrix and took a weekend test ride from the team at a London Cycle Shop. That convinced me - and the economics worked out extraordinarily well, a £5,000 Vectrix break even against my ICE motorcycle within 13 months. Unfortunately the financial crash took out Vectrix, they never really recovered.

Fast forward 10 years and Zero Motorcycles seem to have has a good run and make a nice machine that actually looks and handles like a Motorcycle should. The breakeven is much longer because of the eye watering price :eek: But it is an array attractions to me, the eco benefits, running cost benefits and the sheer enjoyment of an EV bike that performs (out-performs against ICE) to all demands. A biker's bike.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Interesting. So would you prefer something like an Energica, Lightning or something like that if they were reasonably priced? Or what about the C-Evolution?
 

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Zero still don't make a sportsbike though.
They're naked upright things...yuck....
The Energica is what I want a bike to look like.
 

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Madam Legurtz
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Interesting. So would you prefer something like an Energica, Lightning or something like that if they were reasonably priced? Or what about the C-Evolution?
Prefer? I'm very pleased with the Zero in all respects. The three bikes that you mention are interesting inasmuch as it is good to see others coming to market. Not before time too.

I would have liked to have had more choice when searching this year. The two big problems are the high price and the lack of dealer networks. Bikers are a conservative bunch, take some convincing about EV, but it really isn't helped by these two issues. Perhaps in a few years time, when the major makers enter the fray. Or the current independent manufacturers get together to establish a UK dealer framework to support all their makes and models.

I wouldn't have another scooter-style PTW, but thats just a personal choice. The price of the C-Evolution is totally expected of a BMW product ;)
 

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I did my own conversion this year of a Yamaha 600 Fazer. I'm using battery modules from a Leaf. I did post on here about it earlier in the year. So far it's going well, having ironed out a couple of issues early on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Indeed. BMW are priced as you would expect.

Yes there is a challenge with the dealers which I wrote about in my blog which is that they (which should include me but doesnt) do not see money in it. As you know, the bricks and mortar dealers make more money from servicing than they do from selling the bike itself. As you also know, a lot of that potential revenue goes away with electric and youre left with consumables which you can get from Kwik Fit, Halfords etc. Because of this, they are reluctant to promote them plus other things like a lack of promotion over here from the electric manufactures. The same goes for cars of course. Ive heard stories of people going into Toyota dealerships after a Leaf only to be pushed back on to Petrol. To counter this the car dealers are now trying to think of "cunning" ways to continue the post sale revenue stream by offering schemes that cover the battery replacement for a fee/month. I see that as a bit of a con because the batteries should come with warranties that protect them for at least 3 years so its a choice of do you keep the vehicle more than that time and get a new battery (presumably with increased range at the time) or buy it on a HP/PCP scheme when you know you will give it back at the end of the 3 years when the battery is just about to die.

Regarding Bikes. Ive actually been to some of the dealers who are stated to be electric dealers too and one said they were tryiing it (and didnt even have a bike) and the other (Zero dealer) actually told me that I should look in to insurance first which is an interesting sales technique.

Then you have all of the other perceived challenges of electric which you know well, range anxiety, charging, price, dealers who understand them which is why i carry three ranges to cater for that. I have a local Motorcycle garage who will deal with whatever else is required and the 3 year warranty takes care of the rest.

What I think will actually happen is that the unlike other countries who have gone much further is that over here with the exception of people like yourselves, delivery and public sector will be our starting point (and is where I am personally seeing the most uptake) and that will slowly start to trickle down. As an example of this one of the biggest retailers in the country is currently trying 3 wheeled electric bikes for a 1 hour delivery offering. Things like that will turn people on to electric but then it might be price that needs to be convincing enough.

Public sector on the other hand have gotten over that. Im talking to one council about parking enforcement and they have really brought in to the long term cost saving aspects. They have their own charging points and they see that if they are on electric bikes rather than push or pedalec-bikes, they can slap on more parking tickets, make more money and (direct quote) "get away quicker".

Interesting times!
 

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Madam Legurtz
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I did my own conversion this year of a Yamaha 600 Fazer. I'm using battery modules from a Leaf. I did post on here about it earlier in the year. So far it's going well, having ironed out a couple of issues early on.
I found your conversion thread on here. Very nice, and I should say impressive, work indeed. I presume you are still buzzing around on the Fazer?
 

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I'd have thought from the POV of most motorbike riders EV bikes would be preferable as they won't suffer from that common fault that the ICE versions all seem to have whereby the engine keeps revving up when at a standstill at traffic lights.

;)
 

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Madam Legurtz
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@greenmopeds That is really interesting stuff. The Zero dealer I went with is based in Swanley Kent and they were pushing the bikes in 2016/17, with models available and at least two demonstrators. I took out the DSR for several hours, ran my commute to London and back to the dealer for an approximation of normal use. I got back with 46% remaining and that convinced me that range anxiety would not be an issue. Even allowing for reductions for cold weather.

The dealership seemed committed to EV, seeing it as an inevitability and that by getting in early they're establishing a reputation if nothing else. They seemed fully aware that these are going to be more like appliance sales than typical ICE vehicle sales. I've been back a few times for a couple of add-ons and a warranty inspection (no fault found, and not recurred!). But I think the wider dealerships need to get their heads around EV because its coming, or they're going out of business as competition broadens from [perhaps] the likes of your business. Evolve or die is the watch phrase I think. And it sounds like you've formulated a good strategy through your understanding of the market. I think you may be on to something there.

Bikers are going to want a broad selection of EV Motorcycles, from balls out Sport to Tourers and much in between. But then again, Bikers are going to want machines that sound like Bikes for some time to come yet. Its never bothered me, I've not had a problem with quiet bikes, noisy bikes or EV bikes. There is a fallacy that an EV bike won't be heard in traffic and thereby more dangerous. I've not encountered that in the 4 years with the Vectrix nor my time with the Zero SR. But then riders shouldn't be punching holes in traffic with the noise they can make! A whole separate heated discussion, that :D

EV Motorcycle availability needs to broaden much, in terms of make, model and price for more widespread adoption to happen. Time will see that happen, I have little doubt.
 

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Bikers are going to want machines that sound like Bikes for some time to come yet. .
It's an argument I have with other motorcyclists all the time.
We should be doing all we can to make bikes quieter.
Noise is the biggest complaint other road users have about bikes, noise often plays a role in them hugely over-estimating the speed of bikes too.
"Ooooh he were doing a zillion miles per hour when he overtook us....the hooligan" :rolleyes:
We can't complain about that when we've fitted a Yoshi can that makes it sound like we're doing a zillion to these old duffers!!
Even I get annoyed when I hear young'uns buzzing around the roads at night, announcing their ability to ring a throttle to all and sundry.
Yeah, you're a proper Marc Marquez....go home to bed.
 

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Madam Legurtz
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It's an argument I have with other motorcyclists all the time.
We should be doing all we can to make bikes quieter.
I totally agree with that. The most common assertion I get from other bikers is that the audibility of their bikes makes them somehow safer. I usually ask why they don't simply tape the Horn button down so its always on. No one could miss them coming along then, surely? No?

On the daily commute it is not unusual to see a rider blip the throttle aggressively to essentially punch a hole in the traffic so they can filter through. Would they shout "Get out of my way!" as they walk along a pavement? Unlikely, but this is exactly the same thing. And yet for all that aggressive progress I meet them at the next set of lights ... on my silent EV M/C. I filter where the space is available, it doesn't get me to my destination any much slower than the other guy. As and when I need someone to hear me coming along I use the little button on the left handlebar.

EV Motorcycles will carve their own credibility out through Performance (oh that torque) and Style - but Price will play a very significant part. They've got to come down to ICE levels to compete effectively. Are the manufacturers in for the long game, or just for all the early adopter profit they can carve out in 2017/18? The latter will delay broader adoption.
 

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With regard to price, even a mass produced ICE superbike is £16000 now.
I know economies of scale come into it, but if Nissan can sell you a Leaf for £24000 surely to god it can't be difficult to produce an electric superbike for £16000.....?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Regarding noise. The good old EU is bringing out a regulation (eventually) called AVAS about electric cars having to make some form of noise at low speed which presumably will trickle down to bikes.

Some are already thinking about it seriously.. Toyota Global Site | Technology File

The unfortunate thing was that Toyota actually considered a bell noise for their sound which make me think that we are going back to the days of someone walking in front of your waving a flag! However the last was that they picked this.
 

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Madam Legurtz
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Re artificial noise for EV in the UK - we're going to need some statute laws changed as they'll currently be considered a "siren" and therefore illegal except for use by Emergency Services. I know the Nissan Leaf has a sounder, but that is barely audible and only operates under very specific conditions that probably stretch or bend the current laws here. Elsewhere, I understand, the Leaf does make a more audible sound ... even for reversing!
 

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"Any Electric Moped or Motorcycle Riders in London?"
Nope the once proud owners are now all ride less because of the plethora of often violent gangs nicking them.

London is about zillionth on my 'places I would like to ride a bike in again' list.
It was scary enough in the 70's & 80's which was long before the rise of the Mobile Phone or the insurgence of imported thieving scum.
 

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Madam Legurtz
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I ride commuter hours only and even then the anxiety of being targeted by one of the gangs is ever present. I'm just hoping that neither my BMW GS1200-TE or Zero SR 13.0 interests them. Although riding a busy commuter route I have only once seen what I took to be a stolen scooter being pushed along by an accompanying scooter on one of the Summer morning commutes!
 

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New to this forum and wondered if there is any interest in electric mopeds or motorcycles?
i have a 30kw leaf, and also have a electric bike which may be worth looking at. can be ridden with pedal assist (25miles) or throttle only 15 miles. max. 15mph, made in japan and only costs £460, far cheaper than a electric moped. lockable but removable battery for charging and lights included and also 5 speed gears.
 
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