[Aidan Griffin]

Hi All,

I drive a Citroen C-Zero and the charging cable that came with the car is a 3 pin domestic plug to a type 1 connector and I charge it overnight at home and all day at work - (85 mile round trip) saves me £80 a week in diesel !!! But my question is does anyone know if by charging on a 3 pin plug only if this does any damage to the car/battery - and not only for my car but any EV car - so if I bought a nice big expensive Tesla or i8 and only plugged it into a 3 pin socket - would I be harming the battery or is it just a case of it will take a long time to charge compared to an installed EV charging point being installed at my house?

Cheers
Aidan

 

[Hooloovoo]

No risk to the car.

The risk is to the cable/plug/socket if they are not rated for continuous high power use over many hours.

 

[zap fizzle]

Risk of damage to the plug, as noted above. After 60k miles of use, the mains plug of my Czero charger is heat damaged.

With larger battery/faster charging cars, you're wasting quite a bit of power. The charger in the car is peak (perhaps 90%) efficient at around max rated power or perhaps slightly less; at much slower rates they can be significantly inefficient.

This effect is increased by the longer charging time at slower rates - all the time that the car is charging, it's running computers, a coolant pump, and perhaps a fan - all of which consume power.

If you're taking on 30kWh a day and throwing away 10% by using the granny cable instead of a proper EVSE, that's 35p; over 3 years it pays for a cheap EVSE after subsidy.

 

[Mark Cornwall]

The thing I would worry about would be the charging cable not working. I would seriously consider looking for a second hand or new one as a back up plan. I am not sure how robust these EVSE cables are to use twice a day every day !!

 

[DBMandrake]

The thing I would worry about would be the charging cable not working. I would seriously consider looking for a second hand or new one as a back up plan. I am not sure how robust these EVSE cables are to use twice a day every day !!

I used the OEM (Yazaki ?) EVSE for my Ion every day for at least 4 hours over 6 months with no issues - I even had the unit permanently strapped to a downpipe on the outside of the house exposed to the elements as a poor man's tethered charger.

It was about a metre above the ground and sheltered from vertical rain by the eaves of the house, but not from driving rain - so it would sometimes get a bit wet, however the whole unit is water proof as long as the 3 pin plug is inside a waterproof outdoor socket. (Don't leave it lying on the ground though)

As others have pointed out, no risk to the car, the only risk is that if you use a poor quality socket that overheats it may eventually cause heat damage to the 3 pin plug. So the portable EVSE should not be considered a permanent solution for that reason. At about £300 they're not cheap to replace either.

I got a tethered Rolec installed and I use that now - the EVSE sits unused in a cupboard as an emergency backup, which I haven't needed to use!

 

[Scrooge]

If you could get a charge point at home you could cut the 3-pin charger use by half? Any free chargers on your routes? Cheers

 

[Scrooge]

PS Welcome to the mobility scooter club At least that is what I call mine... Cheers

 

[DBMandrake]

If you could get a charge point at home you could cut the 3-pin charger use by half? Any free chargers on your routes? Cheers

Ah, I actually missed the bit where he said he charged both at home and at work.

In that case you have to consider wear and tear on the 3 pin sockets that are being used.

My EVSE was permanently plugged into a waterproof outdoor socket and was not being disturbed, however if the unit was being unplugged and plugged into the two different 3 pin sockets on a daily basis there may be a risk of the contacts in the sockets themselves losing tension over a few months of daily use.

This could eventually lead to overheating the socket/plug. A charge point at home would mean that the EVSE could be left plugged in at work - assuming it was somewhere secure and the socket wasn't needed for anything else of course.

BTW worth mentioning that charging a C-Zero/Ion from a dedicated 16 amp or 32 amp EV charge point is about 40% faster than charging using the 3 pin EVSE. (Charge current goes up from 9 amps to about 13 amps)

It drops charging time from nearly empty to full from 7 1/2 hours to about 4 hours, which can be be useful when making two long round trips from home in the same day.

 

[CmK3PD]

Domestic 3 pin sockets are not designed for this type of use. It's a rather large accident waiting to happen if we don't move away from this onto charge points designed for continuous current use.
While a socket will theoretically be capable of up to 13A, it's not designed for continuous use. A kettle would only be on for a few minutes at load, as would most items, except a charger.

Our company would not let you plug one in due to the risk to the facility should it fail.

 

[DBMandrake]

Domestic 3 pin sockets are not designed for this type of use. It's a rather large accident waiting to happen if we don't move away from this onto charge points designed for continuous current use.
While a socket will theoretically be capable of up to 13A, it's not designed for continuous use. A kettle would only be on for a few minutes at load, as would most items, except a charger.

The charger for an Ion runs at 9 amps, which is less than the commonly used 10 amps for most 3 pin EVSE's. So while it's still not a good idea for permanent use it's not quite as bad as you're making out.

 

[Russ]

Cut the plug off and fit a 16A "Cannon" type plug to the lead and use the 16A socket at home and work.

You can always make up a 13A to 16A socket adapter lead when you need to use a 13A socket.

 

[misterbleepy]

Cut the plug off and fit a 16A "Cannon" type plug to the lead and use the 16A socket at home and work.

You can always make up a 13A to 16A socket adapter lead when you need to use a 13A socket.

that's what I had to do after my original plug went a bit melty while I was using the granny cable (waiting for my first EVSE to be fixed)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TheWongs]

I think the original question was whether every day would harm the ev battery. The answer I think would be a no. The battery would be fine charging at a low rate.

As for the dangers of drawing that much power from a 13a socket... All you need to do is put your hand on the plug once in a while and check for heat. Heat I's bad and means a bad connection.

Apart from that, I'd say there's no problem. I only have the Granny charger at the moment, so use it every day, but it is in my workshop where I can keep an eye on it and check it for heat regularly.

 

[chicky.js]

Cut the plug off and fit a 16A "Cannon" type plug to the lead and use the 16A socket at home and work. You can always make up a 13A to 16A socket adapter lead when you need to use a 13A socket.

Hi Russ If i did what you said do i still keep tje 13amp fuse in the cannon type plug? Thx Jim

 

[Spiny]

There is no fuse in the Cannon type, this eliminates the problem of the fuse-holder in the 13A plug cooking.
However there is a serious problem to do with removing 13A plugs, Many EVSE's (aka Granny leads) have a thermistor or temperature sensor fitted in the plug to try and prevent meltdowns, cutting one of these off effectively scraps the granny lead, very hard to repair and the evse will not function without the temperature sensor.
There are various threads about this scattered about the forum.

 

[oak leaf]

Domestic 3 pin sockets are not designed for this type of use. It's a rather large accident waiting to happen if we don't move away from this onto charge points designed for continuous current use.
While a socket will theoretically be capable of up to 13A, it's not designed for continuous use. A kettle would only be on for a few minutes at load, as would most items, except a charger.

Our company would not let you plug one in due to the risk to the facility should it fail.

What rot and nonsense.

 

[Stinsy]

What rot and nonsense.

?

Lots of threads on here with melty and burned sockets caused by charging a BEV with a standard 13A socket.

It is also prohibited by the wiring regs as any socket used for BEV charging must have type-A RCD protection and PEN-fault detection. While it is possible to provide both to an ordinary 13A socket, while you’re there you might as well just fit a proper charging point.

Why risk burning your house down or killing someone?

 

[chicky.js]

There is no fuse in the Cannon type, this eliminates the problem of the fuse-holder in the 13A plug cooking.
However there is a serious problem to do with removing 13A plugs, Many EVSE's (aka Granny leads) have a thermistor or temperature sensor fitted in the plug to try and prevent meltdowns, cutting one of these off effectively scraps the granny lead, very hard to repair and the evse will not function without the temperature sensor.
There are various threads about this scattered about the forum.

Cool. Thanks for the info Stinsy. The plug that i just cut off was a molded one with the fuse holder between the pins. Im pretty sure there isnt anything in the plug cos it was melting hot during charging. However as mentioned in a previous comment i think i have a bad connection in the wall socket and this is where the heat is coming from.

 

[Spiny]

just check how many wires in the lead where you cut it. 3 is fine anymore and you have an EVSE with a thermistor in the plug.
Overheating sockets may well be the copper / brass contacts loosing their spring and not getting a good contact. The other common problem is the wires coming slightly loose, the screw terminals do need considerable force when tightening, a torque screwdriver is recommended these days.

 

[chicky.js]

Yeah just the 3 wires luckily. Thx for your help
much appreciated.