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Or Toyota.

From the opening gambit:

Battery packs are expensive, aren’t easy to refuel, won’t work for a lot of consumers, and are likely inferior to fuel cells.
What does that even mean?!

While I’d expect some consumers to opt for battery-electric vehicles in the future due to their lower operating costs, my guess is that the bulk of the market will opt for more efficient gasoline or diesel, and/or fuel cell powered vehicles.
More efficient?!

From http://www.accurateautoadvice.com/ who provide "Always accurate automotive advice". So it must be true, right?
 

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There are so many inaccuracies in that article I lost count...

But clearly "because I can't haul 1000lb of rock home in my electric SUV, all electric cars are sh!t." is a solid fact based argument...
 

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So far the hydrogen fuel cell can offer:

Higher upfront purchase cost
Same operating cost as petrol
Refill times of 3-10 minutes
No refill infrastructure

Why would I want to buy that....? 10 minutes on a Tesla Supercharger TODAY can deliver 22.5kwh, about 70 miles of range, and that's free/cost included/prepaid.
 
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There are so many inaccuracies in that article I lost count...

But clearly "because I can't haul 1000lb of rock home in my electric SUV, all electric cars are sh!t." is a solid fact based argument...
Haha yeah, I think if I was ordering 1000lbs of rocks I would get them delivered...

Even having said that, if you play around with http://ecomodder.com/forum/tool-aero-rolling-resistance.php you'll find 1,000lb of rocks is probably only going to reduce your range by about 15% at 70mph...
 

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Wow, what a scientifically insightful report. I love definitive statements using words like "probably" and I adore the lack of references to any source material for the claims such as FCV being cost competitive with ICE by the end of this decade.

I almost fell of my chair reading that garbage.
 

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Let's face it...he has SOME valid points, but the reality is that, for now, Electric is the only real viable alternative to dinosaur juice for most people. Petrol/diesel will persist for AT LEAST a decade as the primary fuel. Unless, on the basis of 'necessity being the mother of invention', there is an even greater incentive in the form of a huge jump in fuel prices. With 'creeping' rises in price, people moan but have no alternative than to stump up the cash due to inelastic demand/lack of alternatives.

But given the fragility of the Middle East, a sharp rise in fuel price is not beyond the realms of possibility. And even then, liquid fuels like ethanol and bio-diesel may be in contention, because they are more suited to the current 'pumping' infrastructure.

EU regs on city pollution levels could also be a driving force, but I see the EU as becoming less powerful, not more.

NB All views are my own :)
 

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I know none of you need convincing but I just watched "who killed the electric car" on youtube and "revenge of the electric car" on netflix - compelling stuff. And battery range of 100 miles from Jay Leno's 1912 electric car (youtube) ? We've not come very far have we ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'm not sure if the claimed range was realistically obtainable for the EV1. Today's EVs have colour infotainment systems.

We've come miles!

The EV1 was only two seater and most of the car was battery. So the per person range has doubled ;)
 

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I'm not sure if the claimed range was realistically obtainable for the EV1. Today's EVs have colour infotainment systems.

We've come miles!

The EV1 was only two seater and most of the car was battery. So the per person range has doubled ;)
I meant we hadn't come far since the baker electric of 1912 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_Motor_Vehicle
oh. And renault - can you swap the colour infotainment for another 100 mile range please ?
 

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I know none of you need convincing but I just watched "who killed the electric car" on youtube and "revenge of the electric car" on netflix - compelling stuff.
Someone should make a "who killed the electric car... the FIRST time". As you rightly point out, electric cars were popular around the turn of the 20th century...

And battery range of 100 miles from Jay Leno's 1912 electric car (youtube) ? We've not come very far have we ?
I believe that it's a 1909 Baker Electric.

To be fair, Jay's comment about not coming very far was referring to the range, and this has little to do with technology. Many of us can drive 90% of our commutes on the 35-40 miles that the Volt/Ampera will give on its battery. Clearly many of us can drive 100% of our commutes on the 70-80 miles that the LEAF will give on its battery. Admittedly, the GM drivers do their thing without massive range problems because of the "range extender" (ICE) and that LEAF drivers often rely heavily on en-route charging. Admittedly the Model S range of 200 miles is much more-comfortable for many drivers, but my point is that a 100-mile range is "about right". It doesn't really have much to do with technology - it has more to do with the demand for range.

There have been enormous developments in the technology, however: weight, size, capacity, management, speed, safety. I would expect more of that to come.

Back to the "who killed" thought, though, some quick web searches will tell you that Ford made some prototype electric cars. You'll also see that Ford and Edison were good friends. You'll find statements from each regarding the future of electric transport... both of them praising it at one time and denouncing it at others.

As I understand it these are the reasons why the electric car was killed the FIRST time:

1) electric cars cost more to produce than petrol cars and so there was more profit to be made selling petrol cars

2) Ford insisted on using Edison's batteries, and Edison's batteries were unreliable

3) Baker largely marketed their cars to women only

4) kerosene distribution was far more ubiquitous than electricity was at the time

5) Rockefeller (Standard Oil) sabatotauged electric car manufacture through its ties with Ford and Edison.

If this history of early technology development and the fighting between entrepreneurs and businessmen interests you, then I would recommend watching "The Men Who Built America"...

http://www.history.com/shows/men-who-built-america

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Men_Who_Built_America

It doesn't touch on the electric car, but it shows the dynamics of collaboration and competition which will fuel logical support for the ideas above. Admittedly, the series focuses on America and mostly ignores that the rest of the world existed... which mindset is very American, indeed. Obviously any good historian would point out that most of these technologies and inventions originated outside of the United States and that these American entrepreneurs merely refined or expanded upon others' work.
 

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Someone should make a "who killed the electric car... the FIRST time". As you rightly point out, electric cars were popular around the turn of the 20th century...



I believe that it's a 1909 Baker Electric.

To be fair, Jay's comment about not coming very far was referring to the range, and this has little to do with technology. Many of us can drive 90% of our commutes on the 35-40 miles that the Volt/Ampera will give on its battery. Clearly many of us can drive 100% of our commutes on the 70-80 miles that the LEAF will give on its battery. Admittedly, the GM drivers do their thing without massive range problems because of the "range extender" (ICE) and that LEAF drivers often rely heavily on en-route charging. Admittedly the Model S range of 200 miles is much more-comfortable for many drivers, but my point is that a 100-mile range is "about right". It doesn't really have much to do with technology - it has more to do with the demand for range.

There have been enormous developments in the technology, however: weight, size, capacity, management, speed, safety. I would expect more of that to come.

Back to the "who killed" thought, though, some quick web searches will tell you that Ford made some prototype electric cars. You'll also see that Ford and Edison were good friends. You'll find statements from each regarding the future of electric transport... both of them praising it at one time and denouncing it at others.

As I understand it these are the reasons why the electric car was killed the FIRST time:

1) electric cars cost more to produce than petrol cars and so there was more profit to be made selling petrol cars

2) Ford insisted on using Edison's batteries, and Edison's batteries were unreliable

3) Baker largely marketed their cars to women only

4) kerosene distribution was far more ubiquitous than electricity was at the time

5) Rockefeller (Standard Oil) sabatotauged electric car manufacture through its ties with Ford and Edison.

If this history of early technology development and the fighting between entrepreneurs and businessmen interests you, then I would recommend watching "The Men Who Built America"...

http://www.history.com/shows/men-who-built-america

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Men_Who_Built_America

It doesn't touch on the electric car, but it shows the dynamics of collaboration and competition which will fuel logical support for the ideas above. Admittedly, the series focuses on America and mostly ignores that the rest of the world existed... which mindset is very American, indeed. Obviously any good historian would point out that most of these technologies and inventions originated outside of the United States and that these American entrepreneurs merely refined or expanded upon others' work.
No , ironically , It was invention of the electric starter motor that killed the electric car first time.
 
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