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Discussion Starter #1
prices of a brand new EV (like a Leaf) still put a lot of people off, as the savings off fuel don't offset the price of the car.I am aware that company's do full conversions of fuel cars to 100% electric. Has anyone had any experience with conversions? and what sort of price are they?
 

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Conversions to a low power/range/performance car could be quite cheap and might save money if the result it usable to you. Conversions aiming for Leaf levels of power/range will easily cost as much as a second hand Leaf if you include your time at a sensible rate.

Conversions of cherished/rare cars is mainly for fun, and expensive.

We won't get large numbers of EVs on the road via conversions, it's all about the new market.
 

Leaf lover
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What we need is a reasonably priced EV
More than three years ago people were putting their money where their mouth is and becoming early adopters of the Leaf and probably like me simply accepted the high price.
We believed it is the right way to go and we wanted it to succeed. Still do.
But is the list price now a fair reflection of what it is costing the car to be produced?
Yesterday I stopped by for a top up and whilst having a coffee noted that the Nissan Note was priced at 拢16k and same spec Leaf was 拢24k. That on the face of it is an 拢8k difference.
Now we know that people are getting good discounts on the Leaf but that is not the point.
The point is that the real difference between the two cars is 拢8 plus the grant, 拢5k, making 拢13k.
The too high list price does put people off.
Is that right?
Have Nissan got their Nissans in a twist?
 

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The max 5K 25% grant must surely be artificially suspending dealer reductions in new price to around the 20K level due to the full grant effectively being pocketed by the dealers and manufacturers the way it is currently conceived.
 

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Quite possibly, although the discounts available on the Leaf, together with much lower prices for used examples seem to have led to significant increases in sales. No-one should be paying list price for a Leaf now (unlike the BMW i3 or Tesla where they have no choice but to pay full price at tthe moment).

Even though the i3 and Tesla are significantly more expensive, they seem to be "supply constrained" rather than "demand constrained" at the moment. Probably because people are willing to pay more for a brand (BMW i3) or range and performance (Tesla). It would be interesting to see how UK sales for these (and other EVs) compare to the Leaf over this year, given the failure of the Ampera/Volt, Smart EV, E-Up and Zoe in the UK market and the apparantly successful start for the Outlander PHEV.

What we need is a reasonably priced EV
More than three years ago people were putting their money where their mouth is and becoming early adopters of the Leaf and probably like me simply accepted the high price.
We believed it is the right way to go and we wanted it to succeed. Still do.
But is the list price now a fair reflection of what it is costing the car to be produced?
Yesterday I stopped by for a top up and whilst having a coffee noted that the Nissan Note was priced at 拢16k and same spec Leaf was 拢24k. That on the face of it is an 拢8k difference.
Now we know that people are getting good discounts on the Leaf but that is not the point.
The point is that the real difference between the two cars is 拢8 plus the grant, 拢5k, making 拢13k.
The too high list price does put people off.
Is that right?
Have Nissan got their Nissans in a twist?
 

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Joined
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My impression at the Nissan factory was that they aren't yet in a place to produce the same number of Leafs as Qashqai's. Two definite issue were the buildup of the inverter/motor controller assembly which is slow, needs a man to do it, and happens in a small environmentally controlled room, and the battery pack assembly. They've just finished/are bringing online a battery assembly building so that will be coming up to speed.

So they are "production constrained" in that they don't really want much more volume than they have now (so pricing remains high), but are on an increasing scale. I think when the real second generation car comes out these things will have been ironed out and they can turn out many more units. I expect to see either a much better car for the same money or a slightly better car for much less money. Maybe both, if they offer two or more battery options.
 

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I'm sure manufacturers are pocketing the 拢5k, but does it matter? The reality is that without sufficient demand, they just don't have the economies of scale.
There's an adoption process called AIDA (Awareness, Interest, Desire, Action) and the reality is that the mass market still isn't at the first 'A' yet.
 

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But is the list price now a fair reflection of what it is costing the car to be produced?
If Leaf sales are now profitable for Nissan then they have only recently become so. Nissan execs admitted that they expected to be selling them at a loss for the first couple of years. It does take a while for the manufacturing costs to come down due to volume and improved processes.
 

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As someone who drives a conversion as a daily driver and runs a business converting cars (and supplying components), all I will say is that it can be cheaper but perhaps not as fully featured as a production car.

Range, performance, low cost. Pick any two of those to the detriment of the other.

Fwiw the total conversion cost of my rx8 was around 拢15,000. It has a solid 60 mile range and performance is comparable to the leaf and ampera.
 

Leaf lover
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Are conversions a low cost answer?
I don't know you'll have to go back to Schooling for that.
But seriously what conversions could show the industry is just what people want in an ev.
For instance whilst I was still coming to terms with the looks of my lovely blue Leaf I fancied that it would look better as a cabriolet. Us Brits love our soft-tops. Cabriolet Leaf, sounds great.
I would love an all electric Lexus CT200h.
Ford produce great driver's cars, how about an E-Fiesta?
Would it be simpler to convert a rear wheel drive or front drive?
How about rear engine, rear drive? Love the looks of a Karmann Ghia
Enough conversions of the same car could start things happening.
 

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An early Leaf is 拢10,000 or less. For example, this 12 plate Leaf with 4,465 miles is advertised at 拢10,000 --> http://www4.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201404133300285/

I don't think you can do a conversion that matches the performance and condition of a 2 year old Leaf for close to that.


Link (disclaimer: I have no connection to the seller and make no representations about this car)
 

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I agree with what @richardglover says - it's all about demonstrating the market. :)

@andrew*debbie No, you cant do a conversion to leaf standard for that amount..... But what if you don't want to drive a leaf or it doesn't fit your requirements??
 

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Would it be simpler to convert a rear wheel drive or front drive?
More or less the same.

I prefer rwd as there are no challenges associated with supporting drive shafts and drive shafts clearing the motor.

The perfect layout in my opinion is mid engined as it leaves more space for batteries under the bonnet :)
 

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So for high end leaf type specs (80 miles, regen, 80hp, 180ftlbs, 7.2kw charging etc) somewhere between 12 and 拢15k all in.
 
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