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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ohh well, yet another post shouting “sparkies are ripping us off with inflated prices cos of the grant” well matey, get used to it.. with the exponential demand we are going to see, it aint going to get cheaper, the unqualified, inexperienced master of quotations demanding the work could easily be done cheaper is the same person who will rant when the units rcd`s start to melt and then complain when the greedy sparky wants to be paid to replace it 3 yrs later, anyway back to the money fountain that is the charger installation grant, here`s a case study for you to ponder, there were 13 other electricians on the course with me, all came out bubbling with enthusiasm, they all use the same wholesalers as me so we see each other quite regularly, all have done a number of charger installs.. how many continue to do it via the grant…. 1, yep all the rest of us will only fit chargers if done privately, because it didn’t make sense financially to carry on with the OZEV scheme.. The well documented coverage of burning RCD`s meant we all started using better quality chargers, the risk when hammering a 4ft spike into utilities populated ground necessitated the inclusion of PEN fault detection and regulations require a type A or above RCD,for protection and they aint cheap, the current limiting devices require signal cable to operate so we either have to tie or clip a data cable to the supply cable and have you lot complaining about unsightly cables or use special EV ultra that has the signal cable in with the supply cable.. cheap at just under a tenner a meter ?, throw in a small consumer unit to feed the charger, otherwise the installation certificate has to cover the whole house and that could then open up a whole new can of worms, then comes the claim, notifying the DNO, 2 pages, same 2 pages go to the ENA, then the 5 page electrical certificate, and the notification for building control, followed by.. OZEV application form, 10 pages, photographic evidence, 2 pics min, cover letter, I page. Spreadsheet claim, 1 page.. so 19 pages and 2 photographs later, you then wait 30 to 50 days to get paid.. ohh yeah, and guarantee it all for 3 years..
They are talking about getting rid of the grant next April, not soon enough as far as I am concerned, then the quotes for £400 to £650 you are getting at the moment with the £350 gift from the tax payer.. well you can double that straight away.
 

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Fair enough on the points you make, as with everything in life, people hate paying money if they don't think they need to.

Out of interest, as a new EV owner, who might be moving house soon, what is your prefered home charger too install?
 

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Ohh well, yet another post shouting “sparkies are ripping us off with inflated prices cos of the grant” well matey, get used to it.. with the exponential demand we are going to see, it aint going to get cheaper, the unqualified, inexperienced master of quotations demanding the work could easily be done cheaper is the same person who will rant when the units rcd`s start to melt and then complain when the greedy sparky wants to be paid to replace it 3 yrs later, anyway back to the money fountain that is the charger installation grant, here`s a case study for you to ponder, there were 13 other electricians on the course with me, all came out bubbling with enthusiasm, they all use the same wholesalers as me so we see each other quite regularly, all have done a number of charger installs.. how many continue to do it via the grant…. 1, yep all the rest of us will only fit chargers if done privately, because it didn’t make sense financially to carry on with the OZEV scheme.. The well documented coverage of burning RCD`s meant we all started using better quality chargers, the risk when hammering a 4ft spike into utilities populated ground necessitated the inclusion of PEN fault detection and regulations require a type A or above RCD,for protection and they aint cheap, the current limiting devices require signal cable to operate so we either have to tie or clip a data cable to the supply cable and have you lot complaining about unsightly cables or use special EV ultra that has the signal cable in with the supply cable.. cheap at just under a tenner a meter ?, throw in a small consumer unit to feed the charger, otherwise the installation certificate has to cover the whole house and that could then open up a whole new can of worms, then comes the claim, notifying the DNO, 2 pages, same 2 pages go to the ENA, then the 5 page electrical certificate, and the notification for building control, followed by.. OZEV application form, 10 pages, photographic evidence, 2 pics min, cover letter, I page. Spreadsheet claim, 1 page.. so 19 pages and 2 photographs later, you then wait 30 to 50 days to get paid.. ohh yeah, and guarantee it all for 3 years..
They are talking about getting rid of the grant next April, not soon enough as far as I am concerned, then the quotes for £400 to £650 you are getting at the moment with the £350 gift from the tax payer.. well you can double that straight away.
Some of us stopped playing the OLEV grant tune a couple of years back, I purchased my own EVSE and put some gainful employment my local electricians way to get it installed to code.

The sooner the grant goes the better, so we agree it seems.
 

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A very emotive post. I can understand most of it but will pick up one point:
then the quotes for £400 to £650 you are getting at the moment with the £350 gift from the tax payer.. well you can double that straight away
Why does losing £350 and the associated Admin and warranty requirements increase the price by a greater amount (£400 - £650)?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Fair enough on the points you make, as with everything in life, people hate paying money if they don't think they need to.

Out of interest, as a new EV owner, who might be moving house soon, what is your prefered home charger too install?
hi, we use the project ev charger, type A RCD and PEN fault inc, wont win any prizes in the look department but it is reasonably priced.. the app is pretty crappy though..
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
A very emotive post. I can understand most of it but will pick up one point:

Why does losing £350 and the associated Admin and warranty requirements increase the price by a greater amount (£400 - £650)?
we quote £430 plus the grant, so min it will cost is £780.00 , we buy all the parts seperatly and as cost effective as possible and still the profit is minimal, as large companies like rolec, british gas etc still quote less..
gary
 

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Ohh well, yet another post shouting “sparkies are ripping us off with inflated prices cos of the grant” well matey, get used to it.. with the exponential demand we are going to see, it aint going to get cheaper, the unqualified, inexperienced master of quotations demanding the work could easily be done cheaper is the same person who will rant when the units rcd`s start to melt and then complain when the greedy sparky wants to be paid to replace it 3 yrs later, anyway back to the money fountain that is the charger installation grant, here`s a case study for you to ponder, there were 13 other electricians on the course with me, all came out bubbling with enthusiasm, they all use the same wholesalers as me so we see each other quite regularly, all have done a number of charger installs.. how many continue to do it via the grant…. 1, yep all the rest of us will only fit chargers if done privately, because it didn’t make sense financially to carry on with the OZEV scheme.. The well documented coverage of burning RCD`s meant we all started using better quality chargers, the risk when hammering a 4ft spike into utilities populated ground necessitated the inclusion of PEN fault detection and regulations require a type A or above RCD,for protection and they aint cheap, the current limiting devices require signal cable to operate so we either have to tie or clip a data cable to the supply cable and have you lot complaining about unsightly cables or use special EV ultra that has the signal cable in with the supply cable.. cheap at just under a tenner a meter ?, throw in a small consumer unit to feed the charger, otherwise the installation certificate has to cover the whole house and that could then open up a whole new can of worms, then comes the claim, notifying the DNO, 2 pages, same 2 pages go to the ENA, then the 5 page electrical certificate, and the notification for building control, followed by.. OZEV application form, 10 pages, photographic evidence, 2 pics min, cover letter, I page. Spreadsheet claim, 1 page.. so 19 pages and 2 photographs later, you then wait 30 to 50 days to get paid.. ohh yeah, and guarantee it all for 3 years..
They are talking about getting rid of the grant next April, not soon enough as far as I am concerned, then the quotes for £400 to £650 you are getting at the moment with the £350 gift from the tax payer.. well you can double that straight away.
Ohh well, yet another post shouting “sparkies are ripping us off with inflated prices cos of the grant” well matey, get used to it.. with the exponential demand we are going to see, it aint going to get cheaper, the unqualified, inexperienced master of quotations demanding the work could easily be done cheaper is the same person who will rant when the units rcd`s start to melt and then complain when the greedy sparky wants to be paid to replace it 3 yrs later, anyway back to the money fountain that is the charger installation grant, here`s a case study for you to ponder, there were 13 other electricians on the course with me, all came out bubbling with enthusiasm, they all use the same wholesalers as me so we see each other quite regularly, all have done a number of charger installs.. how many continue to do it via the grant…. 1, yep all the rest of us will only fit chargers if done privately, because it didn’t make sense financially to carry on with the OZEV scheme.. The well documented coverage of burning RCD`s meant we all started using better quality chargers, the risk when hammering a 4ft spike into utilities populated ground necessitated the inclusion of PEN fault detection and regulations require a type A or above RCD,for protection and they aint cheap, the current limiting devices require signal cable to operate so we either have to tie or clip a data cable to the supply cable and have you lot complaining about unsightly cables or use special EV ultra that has the signal cable in with the supply cable.. cheap at just under a tenner a meter ?, throw in a small consumer unit to feed the charger, otherwise the installation certificate has to cover the whole house and that could then open up a whole new can of worms, then comes the claim, notifying the DNO, 2 pages, same 2 pages go to the ENA, then the 5 page electrical certificate, and the notification for building control, followed by.. OZEV application form, 10 pages, photographic evidence, 2 pics min, cover letter, I page. Spreadsheet claim, 1 page.. so 19 pages and 2 photographs later, you then wait 30 to 50 days to get paid.. ohh yeah, and guarantee it all for 3 years..
They are talking about getting rid of the grant next April, not soon enough as far as I am concerned, then the quotes for £400 to £650 you are getting at the moment with the £350 gift from the tax payer.. well you can double that straight away.
Like many others I suspect, I decided the grant was most definitely not the best way to go.
When I replaced my EVSE, I got Viridian (ECO Harmony) to build me a bespoke EVSE with, PEN loss detection, DC protection etc, all into their classic charger cabinet then got a local electrician to install (drill 4 holes in the wall for cabinet) then test the installation and issue a minor installation works certificate covering the legal requirements for the electrical work. (cable from old charger already in place.)
Cost was £70 all in for electrician and certification.
Viridian use off the shelf RCBO and contactors together with their own design EPC 2 controller which handles normal charger functions plus the DC and PEN loss detection all contained in an all metal enclosure.
(no earth rod required with this configuration)
 

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we quote £430 plus the grant, so min it will cost is £780.00 , we buy all the parts seperatly and as cost effective as possible and still the profit is minimal, as large companies like rolec, british gas etc still quote less..
gary
I failed to explain myself. Yes the £350 isn't received but the requirement for Admin, the cost of the delay in receiving payment from OZEV and the loss of the requirement to provide a 3 year on-site service also go. So surely the cost to the consumer should increase by less than the £350 rather than by more than that amount?

Large installers such as Rolec, BG etc. should have some economies of scale under the current system and of course are charge point manufacturers as well so will be gaining a competitive advantage from that.
 
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I've been over a month trying to get BP chargemaster to sort out my install :( 3 pin plug is honestly sadly going to be the way for many of us that can't afford large up front costs nearing a grand for a charger install.
 

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I've been over a month trying to get BP chargemaster to sort out my install :( 3 pin plug is honestly sadly going to be the way for many of us that can't afford large up front costs nearing a grand for a charger install.
And this is ultimately what will happen. And the militant electricians will shout and yell saying you're going to kill someone without PEN protection, and falsely calling the granny charger an "emergency" charger.

And meanwhile all the Pre-18 Ed chargers will continue with the same protection as a Granny charger.
 

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And this is ultimately what will happen. And the militant electricians will shout and yell saying you're going to kill someone without PEN protection, and falsely calling the granny charger an "emergency" charger.

And meanwhile all the Pre-18 Ed chargers will continue with the same protection as a Granny charger.
Even Hyundai call it an "Emergency 3 Pin Connector" although I suppose that's just to cover themselves in the event of something going wrong.

1.jpg
 

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Even Hyundai call it an "Emergency 3 Pin Connector" although I suppose that's just to cover themselves in the event of something going wrong.

View attachment 143687
Can anyone name anything else that fits the description emergency occasional?

Nearly everything I can think of that is "emergency" is designed for that unplanned event and is a single use, break the seal item.

But as I said, if it is an emergency item because of lack of PEN/DC fault protection, then so is every pre-18th edition charger. Thousands of them.
 

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I think your problem over there is the way your government has tied up the grant stuff with so much red tape that it has become more hassle than it is worth. We have a €600 grant but it is the home owner that claims it not the electrician or was when I claimed it a while ago and there is not much in the way of red tape I just needed proof that I owned an electric car plus the number off the electricity bill.

I had a look around at what chargers would fit on a post neatly, spoke with an electrician mate about what he needed doing as far as donkey work that I could do and so I bought most of the stuff, dug the trench for the cable, concreted in the post and ran the cable back to the fuseboard with plenty of slack at the ends. He came around and did the connecting up and testing which took him a lot less than half a day including stopping for a long chat and a mug of tea. I then spent ten minutes online claiming the grant which was paid to me a few weeks later.
 

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I paid £499 for my pod point tethered charger install after the grant which they sorted out for me. 16m of cable very neat installation I am very pleased with it although it doesn't meet pen certification apparently. From application to Intall one week.

I thought it was a bargain tbh. People moaning and penny pinching on charger installs I don't get at all.

There are huge shortages of trades and it's only going to get worse with Brexit etc.

Get a proper charger installed whilst you can is my advice the grants will be gone soon that much is very clear. There really is no justification at all for providing tax payer subsidies for people buying expensive EVs !
 

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I think your problem over there is the way your government has tied up the grant stuff with so much red tape that it has become more hassle than it is worth.
There's no hassle in claiming the grant for the charger. It is, as you have said, just a few questions to be answered and no evidence needed. However, it is the installer who has to claim and they get the grant money directly.
 

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I had to pay a non refundable £70 survey visit (which I don't have to pay if I go through with the install or it's not feasible to install) and have heard nothing for nearly a month since. I phoned up earlier today, they asked for me email which they should already have and that a specialist will email me?

This is with BP Chargemaster, I am stuck because I don't want to lose out on £70, and possibly again if I go with someone else. I have had the worst luck getting a charger installed.
 
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