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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As some of you who have been following my rear speaker obsession may know, my car is going to a 3rd party car audio specialist on Wednesday for upgrades. They will take an input from the factory front speakers to put into a new Kicker Key amp, that will then go to new front and rear speaker. That input will also go into an amplified sub in the boot.

I do still have this nagging doubt about my VW warranty though, particularly as my car was bricked for about a month by the 2.1 update in the past. Just wondering about this sort of imaginary worst case scenario, how it might play out, and whether I'm being paranoid in worrying about it?

Let's say,
  1. VW roll out OTA update and I install it.
  2. Something fails during the update, car is disabled, it gets towed to my dealer.
  3. Dealer tries to reinstall the software themselves, still doesn't work, VW scratch their heads.
  4. In all of this, dealer notices extra wires coming out of the factory head unit and fuse box and realise I've had an aftermarket audio system installed. Dealer reports this to VW.
  5. VW say "ok, that has then voided warranty on the infotainment system, and as that is part of the overall system that runs the software, by extension it has voided warranty for any software issues."
  6. I say "well, just unplug those two wires then... if it's still not working, then that's obviously not the problem."
  7. Dealer say "no, too late, damage done. We can continue to investigate if you like, but not under warranty and it'll be at the shop rate. But VW won't really help now, so other than just replacing control units at random there isn't much we can do. You're looking at £thousands I'm afraid, if a fix is even possible at all."
  8. I'm left selling a car valued at £29,000 for parts and spares.
  9. I'm sent by this into destitution.
  10. I cry myself to sleep every night for the rest of my life.
How paranoid am I being here? Please can someone tell me I'm being ridiculous, this scenario is incredibly unlikely to happen, and I should just enjoy my new sound system and stop worrying about it... :LOL:

I think I just had so much early bad luck with software on this car that it has made me more of a worrier than I normally am!
 

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Lol! (Sorry!) This is exactly the sort of worrying I’d be doing too!

Might it be worth running it past the dealer first?

To be honest, it if were me, I think I’d just resign myself to living with the car how it is and enjoy the lack of worry and the bulge of cash in my pocket. But then I’m not overly concerned by audio stuff really so I can see that for someone who is the equation is going to be different.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Lol! (Sorry!) This is exactly the sort of worrying I’d be doing too!

Might it be worth running it past the dealer first?

To be honest, it if were me, I think I’d just resign myself to living with the car how it is and enjoy the lack of worry and the bulge of cash in my pocket. But then I’m not overly concerned by audio stuff really so I can see that for someone who is the equation is going to be different.
Bill! You are not helping!!! :ROFLMAO: ;)

Unless there is a very strong consensus on here that I'm out of my mind for getting the sound upgraded, I'm probably going to go ahead because I've already put money down, don't want to cancel on the audio installer at the last minute, and really would like to improve the car's audio.

More likely is that I will just never install any of the OTA updates if I continue feeling spooked by this scenario :LOL:

I did already mention this to my dealer a while ago as an option I might look into for upgrading the sound when they told me that rear speaker retrofits were not available. The tech sucked his teeth, said I'd risk my warranty. When I said "it'll only be a couple of wires... it could be removed easy enough" he said something about "but the extra power load may confuse the software, throw up a fault, I don't know... just saying, it's a risk..." so my paranoia is partly based on that conversation!
 

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'19 i3 120Ah / '20 Kona 64kWh / '21 e208
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You only live once! If the worst really did happen, I’m sure there is some third party VW specialist who’d be able to sort it out - even maybe someone like that guy off that German forum!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Sell it and buy one with rear speakers. You’ll be happier in the end.

I assume also that you own the car outright and it’s not financed In any way?
I looked into swapping for a Max on another thread, it ended up looking expensive and complicated, plus I'd have to wait a long time for delivery. The Max not being eligible for the govt grant doesn't help with all that. Also, just getting a Max wouldn't be as good a sound increase as the aftermarket upgrade I'm having put in on Wednesday.

I do own the car outright. I've financed it partly through an unsecured personal loan.
 

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As far as I can see after a quick skim, the warranty conditions don’t really say that issues occurring after a non-authorised modification have been made are not covered…which I was surprised by to be honest.
 

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I looked into swapping for a Max on another thread, it ended up looking expensive and complicated, plus I'd have to wait a long time for delivery. The Max not being eligible for the govt grant doesn't help with all that. Also, just getting a Max wouldn't be as good a sound increase as the aftermarket upgrade I'm having put in on Wednesday.

I do own the car outright. I've financed it partly through an unsecured personal loan.
OK, so that makes it very easy. You have a choice. Mess about with the infotainment system, which is the heart of controlling the car, or not. Personally, I wouldn’t touch it. The software on many of these EVs is not as robust as it should be and if anything happens then you’re right, you’ll be left with a £29K donor vehicle. Or, contact a VAG retrofit expert like HazzyDayz and get the genuine parts retrofitted properly.

ID3 2020 >

Kufatec do the kit, so Hazzydayz could fit it.

 

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If its any comfort: As long as you have a good relationship with the dealer,, in my experience the dealer is more likely to side with a customer than corporate VW.

Dealers are generally happy as long as the service/ repair bills are being covered. Dealers know that this is not the last car you will buy and in the interest of customer relations, can often be economical with the details fed to VW Technical support group.
 

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As some of you who have been following my rear speaker obsession may know, my car is going to a 3rd party car audio specialist on Wednesday for upgrades. They will take an input from the factory front speakers to put into a new Kicker Key amp, that will then go to new front and rear speaker. That input will also go into an amplified sub in the boot.

I do still have this nagging doubt about my VW warranty though, particularly as my car was bricked for about a month by the 2.1 update in the past. Just wondering about this sort of imaginary worst case scenario, how it might play out, and whether I'm being paranoid in worrying about it?

Let's say,
  1. VW roll out OTA update and I install it.
  2. Something fails during the update, car is disabled, it gets towed to my dealer.
  3. Dealer tries to reinstall the software themselves, still doesn't work, VW scratch their heads.
  4. In all of this, dealer notices extra wires coming out of the factory head unit and fuse box and realise I've had an aftermarket audio system installed. Dealer reports this to VW.
  5. VW say "ok, that has then voided warranty on the infotainment system, and as that is part of the overall system that runs the software, by extension it has voided warranty for any software issues."
  6. I say "well, just unplug those two wires then... if it's still not working, then that's obviously not the problem."
  7. Dealer say "no, too late, damage done. We can continue to investigate if you like, but not under warranty and it'll be at the shop rate. But VW won't really help now, so other than just replacing control units at random there isn't much we can do. You're looking at £thousands I'm afraid, if a fix is even possible at all."
  8. I'm left selling a car valued at £29,000 for parts and spares.
  9. I'm sent by this into destitution.
  10. I cry myself to sleep every night for the rest of my life.
How paranoid am I being here? Please can someone tell me I'm being ridiculous, this scenario is incredibly unlikely to happen, and I should just enjoy my new sound system and stop worrying about it... :LOL:

I think I just had so much early bad luck with software on this car that it has made me more of a worrier than I normally am!
So, on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being more laid back than a windfall apple and 10 being more paranoid than a gazelle at a lion Quaker house meeting, you sound around about 13?

It’s not enough to say you’ve fiddled with it to void a warranty, VW would need to prove beyond reasonable doubt that you’d broken it, and as has already been said your dealer is likely to be on your side anyway.

Worrying about something doesn’t stop bad stuff happening, but it does stop you enjoying the good stuff.

I think you’re over thinking it, the solution you’re putting in place is pragmatic, even a retrofit by somebody like ‘hazzydayz’ would still be an unofficial mod and subject to the same issues.

Just do it man!
 

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If its any comfort: As long as you have a good relationship with the dealer,, in my experience the dealer is more likely to side with a customer than corporate VW.

Dealers are generally happy as long as the service/ repair bills are being covered. Dealers know that this is not the last car you will buy and in the interest of customer relations, can often be economical with the details fed to VW Technical support group.
As above- the dealers want to make money from you and VW (through warranty work). They won't willingly grass you up when they see any mods.

I hear that BW5 and onward cars have rear speakers fitted but not recognised by the head unit until you purchase via OTA upgrades coming soon at a reasonable £129*











* Made you look! This is clearly bollocks. 😆
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
As far as I can see after a quick skim, the warranty conditions don’t really say that issues occurring after a non-authorised modification have been made are not covered…which I was surprised by to be honest.
I guess maybe they'd call it 'improper use'? As in, plugging in an aftermarket thing to the factory loom is not 'proper use' of the factory loom?

OK, so that makes it very easy. You have a choice. Mess about with the infotainment system, which is the heart of controlling the car, or not. Personally, I wouldn’t touch it. The software on many of these EVs is not as robust as it should be and if anything happens then you’re right, you’ll be left with a £29K donor vehicle. Or, contact a VAG retrofit expert like HazzyDayz and get the genuine parts retrofitted properly.

ID3 2020 >

Kufatec do the kit, so Hazzydayz could fit it.

From what I've seen on German forums, the speculation is that software updates would undo the recoding needed for that Kufatec kit. Plus, again, the factory rear speakers themselves wouldn't be a massive sound upgrade... some forum posters who have played around with the fade levels say they don't make much difference.

But, wouldn't there also be a risk from something like this? Hazzydays would have to do coding of the infotainment system to enable the rear speaker output from the factory unit. If that went wrong, couldn't that void my warranty too? (Ah, I see Tooks said the same before I finished writing this).

If its any comfort: As long as you have a good relationship with the dealer,, in my experience the dealer is more likely to side with a customer than corporate VW.

Dealers are generally happy as long as the service/ repair bills are being covered. Dealers know that this is not the last car you will buy and in the interest of customer relations, can often be economical with the details fed to VW Technical support group.
That's good to hear! Though, I have no idea how happy my dealer are with me at this point... I did come close to rejecting it while it was disabled for a month or so during the 2.1 update debacle. I tried to remain polite throughout, but it wouldn't surprise me if I was on their 'least favourite customers' list!

So, on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being more laid back than a windfall apple and 10 being more paranoid than a gazelle at a lion Quaker house meeting, you sound around about 13?

It’s not enough to say you’ve fiddled with it to void a warranty, VW would need to prove beyond reasonable doubt that you’d broken it, and as has already been said your dealer is likely to be on your side anyway.

Worrying about something doesn’t stop bad stuff happening, but it does stop you enjoying the good stuff.

I think you’re over thinking it, the solution you’re putting in place is pragmatic, even a retrofit by somebody like ‘hazzydayz’ would still be an unofficial mod and subject to the same issues.

Just do it man!
Hahaha! See, this is the sort of feedback I was hoping for :ROFLMAO:

I suppose if the worst did happen (as in, I was looking at losing thousands), I would get a solicitor who would force VW to explain how the extra couple of wires led to the OTA software update failing. As you say, they wouldn't find it that easy to do as it clearly wouldn't have been the reason why it failed.

As above- the dealers want to make money from you and VW (through warranty work). They won't willingly grass you up when they see any mods.

I hear that BW5 and onward cars have rear speakers fitted but not recognised by the head unit until you purchase via OTA upgrades coming soon at a reasonable £129*











* Made you look! This is clearly bollocks. 😆
Hahaha.... you joke, but if anything in the universe could make that turn out to surprisingly be true it would be me spending a grand on aftermarket audio upgrades! :ROFLMAO:
 

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I guess maybe they'd call it 'improper use'? As in, plugging in an aftermarket thing to the factory loom is not 'proper use' of the factory loom?
From my time poking about behind the dash, they won’t be touching the core factory loom, the most they should be doing is intercepting the speaker outputs that they should do via an adaptor and will have no need to splice into any factory wiring.

Worst case scenario, you can reverse the mod at the infotainment unit by unplugging it, and restoring it to factory config.

I’m no expert on OTA updates, but quite why it would be impacted by intercepting speaker outputs and wiring in a dedicated 12v feed for the amp etc I’m struggling to understand.

If I’m going to keep mine for a few years, I might even be doing something similar.
 

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Hahaha.... you joke, but if anything in the universe could make that turn out to surprisingly be true it would be me spending a grand on aftermarket audio upgrades! :ROFLMAO:
Sometimes it's better to live in ignorance. Perverse curiosity has tempted me to get a motorway.co.uk valuation on the A4 Avant that made way for my first ID3 value is £2200 more than I got for offloading it in mid April. If I were selling it now, a year's ownership would've cost me £800 in depreciation! Similarly, the Polo GTI+ that made way for ID3 number 2 has gone up £600 in 3 weeks!
 

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I do understand your paranoia - after all you’ve been through, it’s hardly surprising.

I think Tooks is spot on - VW can’t void warranty on a whim - they’d have to prove that what you did actually caused the problem.

If the sound system bothered you as much as it appears, I’d go for it. You’ve got to live with the car and you need to be happy - I think the audio upgrade will make you smile. I hadn’t realised how good a proper audio system sounded until I got mine, you just get used to what’s fitted - music niw sounds totally different.
 

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I do understand your paranoia - after all you’ve been through, it’s hardly surprising.

I think Tooks is spot on - VW can’t void warranty on a whim - they’d have to prove that what you did actually caused the problem.

If the sound system bothered you as much as it appears, I’d go for it. You’ve got to live with the car and you need to be happy - I think the audio upgrade will make you smile. I hadn’t realised how good a proper audio system sounded until I got mine, you just get used to what’s fitted - music niw sounds totally different.
Well, what do you think of this thread?


Similar situation - aftermarket device fitted, power steering dies. VAG refuse to pay out…
 

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Well, what do you think of this thread?


Similar situation - aftermarket device fitted, power steering dies. VAG refuse to pay out…
Fitting an immobiliser that taps into the CANBUS System is a very different bucket of fish to that of intercepting an analogue audio output downstream.
 

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Well, what do you think of this thread?


Similar situation - aftermarket device fitted, power steering dies. VAG refuse to pay out…
They can contest anything, and hope you don't take them to the (depending on the size of the bill) small claims court. If it gets that far, its not a claim against VW, its against the supplying dealership - which is a PITA if you're not.close to your supplying dealership.

I had an issue with my Polo's tailgate. You had to slam it to close it, and as a result, the bottom inner edge of the tailgate had some minor rubbing on paintwork you couldn't see with the boot closed. I could see straight away that the lock keep was set very far back in the boot opening. I brought this to the attention of my local dealership at 5 months old. They fobbed me off as it being normal, despite their showroom Polo not needing a slam to close. At 6.5 months, I brought it to the attention to the other local dealership while in for something else. They fully supported the claim but VW UK rejected it as a "door adjustment" that you apparently only have 6 months to instigate. They weren't the supplying dealership, I would've had to go 180 miles back to the supplying dealership. I fixed it myself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I think it sounds like I'm increasing my risk of ruinous warranty losing very slightly, but not enough that it should keep me awake at night. There's probably a higher statistical likelihood of plenty of other terrible things happening to me that I don't worry about.

That said, I may not be the very first person on this forum to initiate the first OTA update when it becomes available! Think I would be sensible to wait to see whether anyone has problems with it and, if so, for VW to figure out a fix for those problems before I give it a go on mine. If there are issues with the update on my car, I think considering my slightly increased risk that they may try to walk away from the warranty I'll rather they think "oh yeah, another one of these, we know how to fix this" than "hmm... this is a head scratcher..." :LOL:

Though being patient for the OTA update will be hard for me to do if it does turn out to offer the option to upgrade to Travel Assist as I'd love to have that!
 

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Fitting an immobiliser that taps into the CANBUS System is a very different bucket of fish to that of intercepting an analogue audio output downstream.
If you go through the whole (epic) thread it was generally agreed by 2 or 3 independent workshops that the recovery service blew the fuse on the steering rack and caused other damage and the immobiliser was nothing to do with it but Audi (Volkswagen) just flat out rejected the claim. It’s super easy to say you’d fight it in the magistrates court and you might even win, and in the meanwhile you’ve still had to pay to get the car repaired. With modern cars, retrofitting or modifying them is a mugs game.
 
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