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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, this could be interesting!

Knowing Elon's marketing, should we expect the Model 3 to gain power, range, price drop or something else to win back their "best £40k ev " crown I wonder.

Auto Express say its down to ride, handling and build quality the Mach-E wins on although they do say the Superchargers are still a major draw for the Tesla.

See here:- 'Tesla's dominance is no longer a given' | Auto Express
 

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Irrelevant.

Like most of the motoring magazines, editorial tend to be pretty independent of the advertising. Unlike some publications who need to not upset their advertisers, Car magazines do ok and don't really need to worry about it. If it was based on the advertisng spend, Tesla wouldn't have got any decent reviews, as they don't really spend on that kind of advertising - theirs is viral and multimedia.

When Ford launched the original Ecosport it was slated as rubbish and quickly improved. When one of the Escorts were launched, (mark 3 I think) again it was slated before Ford massively improved it.

The fact is, the Tesla has a good range (now beaten by the Ford) and some nice tech (now almost matched by the Ford) and the Superchargers (unmatched by anyone, but the public rapid charge network is very good now - and of course the Superchargers get less important the more miles range a car has).

However, Ford have always been able to make a car ride AND handle - something eluding most other manufacturers including Merc, BMW and especially Audi. And, there is nothing Ford don't know about mass production which is where the Model 3 is really failing.

I haven't seen the full article yet, but anyone who's seen the tests of the Mach-E can see the thing drives really well....

Tesla have pretty much had it their own way so far - but fortunately that's changing - which is good for all of us and it means the quality of the Tesla will have to rise to match it's price.
 

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Zoe Devotee
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Irrelevant.

Like most of the motoring magazines, editorial tend to be pretty independent of the advertising. Unlike some publications who need to not upset their advertisers, Car magazines do ok and don't really need to worry about it. If it was based on the advertisng spend, Tesla wouldn't have got any decent reviews, as they don't really spend on that kind of advertising - theirs is viral and multimedia.

When Ford launched the original Ecosport it was slated as rubbish and quickly improved. When one of the Escorts were launched, (mark 3 I think) again it was slated before Ford massively improved it.

The fact is, the Tesla has a good range (now beaten by the Ford) and some nice tech (now almost matched by the Ford) and the Superchargers (unmatched by anyone, but the public rapid charge network is very good now - and of course the Superchargers get less important the more miles range a car has).

However, Ford have always been able to make a car ride AND handle - something eluding most other manufacturers including Merc, BMW and especially Audi. And, there is nothing Ford don't know about mass production which is where the Model 3 is really failing.

I haven't seen the full article yet, but anyone who's seen the tests of the Mach-E can see the thing drives really well....

Tesla have pretty much had it their own way so far - but fortunately that's changing - which is good for all of us and it means the quality of the Tesla will have to rise to match it's price.
MK5 Escort, blancmange on wheels. Got better but still didn't sell, hastened the lightly refreshed MK6 I believe which was alright.

I tend the agree though. Ford aren't late to the party, they arrived right on time with the right car at the right time. It'll sell in great numbers. Personally I don't see it a a M3 competitor though, its a different type of car altogether.
 

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MK5 Escort, blancmange on wheels. Got better but still didn't sell, hastened the lightly refreshed MK6 I believe which was alright.

I tend the agree though. Ford aren't late to the party, they arrived right on time with the right car at the right time. It'll sell in great numbers. Personally I don't see it a a M3 competitor though, its a different type of car altogether.
Which just goes to show how unimportant the opinion of the motoring press and the actual tangible differences there is between cars. I had a mk5 escort and drive it until the mileometer rolled back round to 0. The handling was absolutely fine.
 

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One other thing I’m hoping for is that with more and more EVs filling their cars with tech as standard (likely to offset the perceived higher price by adding in paid options from their ICE ranges) - this will dilute/neutralise the value of autopilot and get Tesla to add value there

Autopilot is great. But autopilot is also basically just radar cruise plus lane keeping which many other makers offer now. Tesla still doesn’t offer any parking assistance even as a paid option (unless you pay for crazy expensive partial/full FSD), no surround camera, no carplay/android auto etc.
 
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I’m sure the Mache is very good at what it is, but (Superchargers aside) the thing that would prevent me from getting one is that it’s a bloody great SUV type thing. The Model 3 needs some competitors for sure, but why do they all have to be so tall and grumpy looking? And the Mache is lower than most.
 

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I'm surprised outlets are giving the nod for handling to a massively heavier car - it's not the first time in a Tesla comparison. They really need to look into what's happening there.
 

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I'm surprised outlets are giving the nod for handling to a massively heavier car - it's not the first time in a Tesla comparison. They really need to look into what's happening there.
I don’t see why a heavy car can’t handle, if the engineers knew what they were doing?

Ford have made entertaining to drive cars for a long while now, even if you’re not totally liking the rest of the Ford package.

It became part of Fords DNA when the Focus arrived, there’s more to a car than how fast it can head butt the horizon, especially in the European market.
 

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There are already EVs on the market that are cheaper than a Tesla with greater range.

Not sure why they made the comparison with the Model 3 - the Mach-E is designed to compete with the MY.

Oh yes, they need to mention Tesla to get the clicks.
 

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There are already EVs on the market that are cheaper than a Tesla with greater range.

Not sure why they made the comparison with the Model 3 - the Mach-E is designed to compete with the MY.

Oh yes, they need to mention Tesla to get the clicks.
Hopefully this is the last year that, that happens, the model y will arrive, and also very many other cars of different makes and types, so we can start to see useful comparisons rather than SUV Vs compact exec saloon nonsense we get fed at the moment.
 

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The cheapest Mach-E looks like a bargain at £37k after the grant. I’d just buy one.
 

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Why do people people keep banging on about "SUVs" as though having that shape is destroying the planet?
The SUVs that have the bad name are in the US, and it means something rather different (larger) over there. In Europe it's just a bigger hatchback.

If instead of just looking at pictures and thinking "that's a big car", try digging a bit. The Mach-e is a bit taller than an M3, but it's footprint and weight aren't actually that much more. The M3 is not a small or compact car by any European standard.
(The Mustang has always been a fairly small car by US standards, so actually a similar car to the M3 in that respect.)
 

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The words above about size are spot on. I had a test drive in a Mach-e in Germany, and also one in a Tesla. Size was a thing that mattered for me, I didn't want a big car. Appearances can easily deceive, as the Tesla looks smaller, but the dimensions are the give away. The Tesla is 4.694 meters long, the Ford is 4.713 meters long, only 1.9cm difference, about the thickness of my thumb. the Tesla is 1.849 meters wide and the Ford is 1.881 meters wide only a 3.2cm difference.

The Mach-e wasn't the car for me, niether was the Tesla, but the Mach-e seemed to be better built than the Tesla. hard to describe from just a short test drive, just felt better finished off somehow. Both we very impressive cars, though. I got ribbed for choosing a Jag i-Pace, because of the size of the thing, but it is shorter than both the Tesla and the Ford at 4.682 meters long
 

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Why do people people keep banging on about "SUVs" as though having that shape is destroying the planet?
The SUVs that have the bad name are in the US, and it means something rather different (larger) over there. In Europe it's just a bigger hatchback.

If instead of just looking at pictures and thinking "that's a big car", try digging a bit. The Mach-e is a bit taller than an M3, but it's footprint and weight aren't actually that much more. The M3 is not a small or compact car by any European standard.
(The Mustang has always been a fairly small car by US standards, so actually a similar car to the M3 in that respect.)
What we call SUVs over here in the UK are more accurately small SUVs or Crossovers aren’t they?

Whatever they are, it’s their popularity that has led to a reversal in the declining mpg/CO2 numbers, so the quicker they all get electrified the better really.

They’ll also be better cars as a result if you ask me.
 

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Why do people people keep banging on about "SUVs" as though having that shape is destroying the planet?
Because they often seem to be comparatively inefficient. A Passat estate and a Tiguan are similar weights and similar boot sizes (and price), but the Tiguan is taller and the Passat is longer. With the same engine and drivetrain (FWD 2.0 TDI with a DSG) and both on 18" wheels, the Passat manages 55mpg vs the Tiguan's 48mpg on the extra high WLTP test. As an end customer, it looks like body shape makes the car 14% less economical, so 14% more planet destroying. Not claiming that this perception is correct, but it seems like there is enough there to raise an eyebrow and dig into it a bit deeper.
 

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Crumbs I've triggered something by using SUV as a term. I apologize, it was lazy of me. I still think a mach e isn't that close to a Tesla model 3. If I was looking at buying a BMW X5 I probably wouldn't cross shop it against a Mercedes E class. I have no problem with people choosing either form factor if that's what's appropriate to them or just if it's what they want, if they can make a choice from different suitable electric ones, so much the better.
 

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Does efficiency matter that much? over here about 30% of electricity is green, and no petrol is green, is it? Any electric car, even a less efficient one, has to be greener than using petrol, for sure.
 

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Crumbs I've triggered something by using SUV as a term. I apologize, it was lazy of me. I still think a mach e isn't that close to a Tesla model 3. If I was looking at buying a BMW X5 I probably wouldn't cross shop it against a Mercedes E class. I have no problem with people choosing either form factor if that's what's appropriate to them or just if it's what they want, if they can make a choice from different suitable electric ones, so much the better.
It’s something that happens, owing to the still small number of EVs out there.

Everything EV gets compared, which is why you get nuggets of wisdom like ‘the Honda e is ok, but it’s too small and look at the range’, followed by a recommendation to get a M3...

When enough manufacturers have enough EVs in all the sectors, we can have meaningful comparisons.
 
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