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Discussion Starter #3
That's not right is it.

He also quoted the 0-60 time and weight from the BEV.

Still, good to see it being thrown around like that :)
 

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So, I really, really like the i3.

But comparing apples to apples between the BEV versions of the i3 and the LEAF, the proposition as I see it is less storage, less range, fewer seats, similar performance and similar (if not less) gadgets, back doors you can't open without opening the front (been there, done that, it's a bit of a pain)... but people (especially the larger publications) seem to see the i3 as a "game changer".

Is it me, or was I right in saying that BMWs amazing PR and marketing machine are winning over cynics and enthusiasts alike?
 

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The i3 seems over priced, with the petrol option giving you not that more range that a Zoe or a 2nd gen Leaf, stupid doors, less seats,and the two massive micro USB chargers on the front grill make it look like a toy.
Argh now every time I see one , I am going to focus on the micro USB ports, never even noticed till you pointed it out :)
 

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Have you driven an i3 yet Paul ?
Not had a chance yet, but I am making plans to be able to get back in the saddle for some proper test time. I only handed back my press card last year, thinking my car reviewing days were behind me... Oops.

That said, I think these reviews are not, or at least should not, be based on driving dynamics alone.

The main criticisms from the mainstream seems to be that EVs are impractical (for various reasons). The BEV i3 is one of the less practical options available on a number of levels... Yet being BMW and having a REx option it seems that all is forgiven.

Again, I could see this coming, said as much many times, and think it's great for both the i3 and EVs in general. Just doesn't tally with reality at times.
 

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Is it me, or was I right in saying that BMWs amazing PR and marketing machine are winning over cynics and enthusiasts alike?
Absolutely!

I love the fact that 'ordinary' people are buying this car and I've been fascinated to watch BMW dealers using the REx option to overcome the range issue for many... "you need more range? no problem sir/madam. Just select the REx from the option list and keep on driving" :)
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
I think these reviews are not, or at least should not, be based on driving dynamics alone.
I agree but it's what sells mags and cars. There are plenty of people that don't care about 'driving dynamics' but there's also a very large percentage of car buyers that do and BMW have always aimed at that particular group and have become very successful by doing so. They are the first manufacturer to offer an affordable EV aimed at this group so I don't think it's a coincidence that it's going down well, lots of people waiting for this moment, me included.

If you read the i3 threads on 'old school' motoring forums (like PH) you'll find a lot of people buying the i3 just because of how fun it is to drive. There is very little talk of the environmental benefits or number of seats, storage, etc. It's new manufacturing methods make it an interesting car and it's light weight and power delivery make it a hoot to drive and I'm sure that's a big part of why it's being so well recieved. I love the fact that it's offering me something new to get excited about after 20 years of driving ICE cars.

The BEV i3 is one of the less practical options available on a number of levels... Yet being BMW and having a REx option it seems that all is forgiven.
This isn't the first time I've read someone inferring that the badge makes people blind to the i3's negative points :(
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I thought the Zoe did 130 and the Rex did 160
After the Autocar review I somehow stumbled across a video from a Zoe owner in Aberdeen. His car was fully charged and showing 67 miles of range. Maybe that's far from typical but it struck me as being a long way short of the 130 that I've seen quoted here.
 

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I thought the Zoe did 130 and the Rex did 160, which isn't much more, but maybe the 130 is wrong or not a real world figure.
The 2013 Leaf (24kWh battery) has a certified range 199 km (124 mi) NEDC. Nissan estimates that the 2013 Leaf has 135 km (84 mi) range EPA.

The ZOE (22kWh battery) has a certified range 210 km (130 mi) NEDC. AFAIK we don't have an official EPA range at this time but I guess it will be ~145 km (90 mi).

The BMW i3 REx (18.8kWh usable battery capacity) has a certified range 170 km (106 mi) NEDC. AFAIK we don't have an official EPA range at this time but I guess it will be ~120 km (75 mi). The REX range is 240 to 300 km (150 to 190 mi) when running electric and petrol.

I think that most people would argue that EPA range is much more realistic than NEDC and therefore the difference between the 2013 Leaf and i3 REx is ~15 miles. However, once depleted the Leaf must recharge whereas the i3 REX can continue on petrol for another 75 to 115 miles.
 

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I have a zoe and when I left for a drive the car had 77miles and after 126miles later I still had over 20miles left, it was summer time and I had 5 people in the car fully loaded I was driving at 60mph all the way, even now I'm getting 80/90 in the cold. And you can really drive the zoe fast and it handles very well because it's got the Clio cup chassis. Look on the zoe forums lots of people have exceeded the range and Zoe.
And in the summer I will love to drive side by side with a i3 and see what runs out first.
 

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@Paul do you have a link to the source for the figures in the "sticky"? I've tried to use data like NEDC so that we can compare vehicles and then estimate 'real world' EPA range.
 

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If you read the i3 threads on 'old school' motoring forums (like PH) you'll find a lot of people buying the i3 just because of how fun it is to drive.

This isn't the first time I've read someone inferring that the badge makes people blind to the i3's negative points :(
I'll try to give a "proper" reply when I'm out of the bath(?!) but just quickly on those two things.

Point 1) I bet most (like myself) have never even considered a LEAF, let alone sucked in their pride and prejudices and actually driven one in anger (or joy). This is one reason the "BMW factor" is great for EVs...

Point 2) Not the badge, but by doing the "emotive" things right (and for hard working car hacks, that IS what makes the most impact in their short time with cars) BMW and others certainly get away with things KIA would never. Again, not saying it's a bad thing, it's just my experience over the years.
 

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@Paul do you have a link to the source for the figures in the "sticky"? I've tried to use data like NEDC so that we can compare vehicles and then estimate 'real world' EPA range.
Off the top of my head no, but Google BMW Group press, I think most of their site is open to all, including lots of nice photos.
 
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