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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Love it or hate it, Tesla's (or more likely Elon's) decision to call its level 2 autonomy Full Self Driving generates a lot of conversations on the topic. But Tesla is not the only name in town. Since most EVs have Level 1 (adaptive cruise control), I will just attempt to list the ones that have Level 2. No one in Europe (or the world for that matter, sans Japan) sells a Level 3 and above cars.

Level 2 (Adaptive Cruise Control, Lane Centering), incomplete list:
How well these autonomous features work in practice varies a lot. Jerkiness in steering and braking under ACC are very common problems. Also L2 in heavy rain/snow are pretty much unsolved.

Now for pure speculation on the current major players, 100% my opinion:
  1. Argo AI: This company has backing from both VW and Ford (each has 40% share) and it is already running a level 4 Fleet, and will soon be charging money for their Robo taxi service. VW also wants to sell this self driving as a service.
  2. Aptiv aka Hyundai aka Motional: They're still betting on Robo taxi but undoubtedly the tech will drip down to your Ioniq/EV6 eventually.
  3. Toyota: I'm still disappointed about Toyota's bet on Hydrogen, which could turn out to be another environmental disaster. But they've been investing heavily in self driving tech, and have announce significant spending in EVs. They recently bought out Level 5 (used to belong to Lyft and have a very significant UK presence)
  4. Tesla: The elephant in the room, with the most publicity. They also have the most number of high profile crashes. But thousands of drivers swear by it.
There are of course many other ventures not listed here (Waymo for example but they don't sell cars, they sell a service). If want a car with good autonomous assist in the near future that's not a Tesla, my bet will be on ArgoAI's ventures aka Ford/VW. The technology seems most matured and both companies are committed to EV (for the VW case it's a matter of survival).
 

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2021 BMW iX3 Premier Pro / Nissan Leaf 2021 e+tekna (ordered)
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BMW have level 2 on the iX3, does lane change etc as long as the navigation is enabled.

Technically hands free works, just warns you to put hands back on, and the lane stuff works without navigation, but it won't take off roads etc without nav (as doesn't know where its going obv)
 

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The Automatic Cruise control works pretty well in the E-Niro, certainly on Motorways, also useful in town with slow moving traffic, but there you need to be more alert
 

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Adaptive cruise works exceptionally well in the Nissan Leaf. Lane assist seems pretty pointless. Anti collision systems are ery difficult to evaluate.
 

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However in Europe at least, this level 2 autonomy is a bit cut off at the knees, as can't stear over a certain percentage anyhow, so even the tesla system is half featured compared to usa.
 

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Would need a major improvement in the painting and maintaining of road markings etc before autonomous driving has any chance.
 

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GOLF GTE PHEV
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Adaptive cruise works exceptionally well in the Nissan Leaf. Lane assist seems pretty pointless. Anti collision systems are ery difficult to evaluate.
Agree, Don't like the Propilot steering assist so never use it but it does work.
The ACC is great.
The IEB - intelligent emergency braking does work - there are a few sharp bends when it bleeps and then if it thinks we are about to hit something, it will brake. Occasionally it panic brakes when heading for the chevrons on a sharp bend at speed.
 

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Love it or hate it, Tesla's (or more likely Elon's) decision to call its level 2 autonomy Full Self Driving generates a lot of conversations on the topic. But Tesla is not the only name in town. Since most EVs have Level 1 (adaptive cruise control), I will just attempt to list the ones that have Level 2. No one in Europe (or the world for that matter, sans Japan) sells a Level 3 and above cars.

Level 2 (Adaptive Cruise Control, Lane Centering), incomplete list:
How well these autonomous features work in practice varies a lot. Jerkiness in steering and braking under ACC are very common problems. Also L2 in heavy rain/snow are pretty much unsolved.

Now for pure speculation on the current major players, 100% my opinion:
  1. Argo AI: This company has backing from both VW and Ford (each has 40% share) and it is already running a level 4 Fleet, and will soon be charging money for their Robo taxi service. VW also wants to sell this self driving as a service.
  2. Aptiv aka Hyundai aka Motional: They're still betting on Robo taxi but undoubtedly the tech will drip down to your Ioniq/EV6 eventually.
  3. Toyota: I'm still disappointed about Toyota's bet on Hydrogen, which could turn out to be another environmental disaster. But they've been investing heavily in self driving tech, and have announce significant spending in EVs. They recently bought out Level 5 (used to belong to Lyft and have a very significant UK presence)
  4. Tesla: The elephant in the room, with the most publicity. They also have the most number of high profile crashes. But thousands of drivers swear by it.
There are of course many other ventures not listed here (Waymo for example but they don't sell cars, they sell a service). If want a car with good autonomous assist in the near future that's not a Tesla, my bet will be on ArgoAI's ventures aka Ford/VW. The technology seems most matured and both companies are committed to EV (for the VW case it's a matter of survival).
As (I think) you haven’t asked a specific question, I’ll just offer an opinion:-
I have a Tesla M3, so I “speak” with some experience of that particular car, based on that experience I would not pay Tesla a single penny for FSD… the reason… they seem unable /unwilling to market a model 3 with auto wipers, auto headlights, and adaptive cruise control that works anywhere near the offerings most other vehicle manufacturers currently provide.
If they can’t/won’t sort what’s really an already sorted basic feature of modern cars, what chance have they realistically got with FSD?
Come on Mr. Musk, give us a product that works well with features other manufacturers do acceptably well before farting about with vapourware (that probably won’t work very well either)
10 out of 10 for effort, wouldn’t give it much out of 10 for results.
The phrase “the attention is in the detail” seems lost in so many ways on Tesla.
Perhaps they are banking on FSD working so well that it won’t matter if we can’t see where we are going because our screens are impossible to see through if it’s dark AND raining, or our lights are not able to illuminate the road ahead?
 

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2021 BMW iX3 Premier Pro / Nissan Leaf 2021 e+tekna (ordered)
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I went and test drove an S before ordering the bmw, and when I said I was testing a BMW to the guy at tesla he seated saying they don't understand electric cars in a snotty kinda way.

To be fair, the S was nice enough to drive, fast but feels very 'soulless' like a lot of American cars, rapid in a straight line, boring any other time.

And the fit and finish in a 70+k car was shocking, even on the demo car.

Maybe when they get the 'car' part of the electric car I may be back, but for now I'll stick with a car maker, making cars. Yes the 'toys' might kot be as silicon Valley, but at least they all work as they are meant too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
10 out of 10 for effort, wouldn’t give it much out of 10 for results.
The phrase “the attention is in the detail” seems lost in so many ways on Tesla.
Perhaps they are banking on FSD working so well that it won’t matter if we can’t see where we are going because our screens are impossible to see through if it’s dark AND raining, or our lights are not able to illuminate the road ahead?
All CV-only autonomous systems suffer greatly from rain and snow, and FSD is CV-only. Their rain sensors are CV-based so it won't work well in the dark. Probably will take a few (a lot) more iterations to get it right.
 
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