Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

Autopilot for a 120 miles daily commute: is it realistic?

6K views 55 replies 18 participants last post by  bigvirgil 
#1 ·
First of all, apologies if this is a bit redundant with another of my posts here: New S60/75 vs Preowned S85: which should I buy?
My point being here to focus on this specific problem of mine.

So, once again, I will be starting next month a long term contract in London which will see me driving there for at least 120 miles each working day.
For Londoners: it will be ~60 miles back and forth between Milton Keynes and Uxbridge/Heathrow, via either M1/M25 or M40 (2 of the most congested highways in the UK, especially at rush hour).

So my rationale is to buy a Model S, either a new base Model with AP2 (got until tomorrow if I go for an S60 and there are still a few inventory models around) or a preowned model with AP1.

I would prefer a new model with AP2 but I'm price sensitive enough to seriously consider a couple of cheaper models with AP1 since AP1 does already pretty much all what I need on congested motorways.

So my big question is twofold:

- First: is the MS going to handle this or am I heading towards a massive bag of hurt? I reckon I will drive at least 35,000 miles per year. I know Bjørn Nyland used to drive that much before breakfast but it doesn't seem to have always been such an easy ride so that clearly concerns me, especially if I buy second hand with a third party.

If I don't go for a new S60, I'm eyeing either a 2014 S85 with 20,000 miles, or a slightly less fancy 2016 S70 with 10,000 miles. Which means that for the S85 the warranty will run out at 50,000 miles, likely before the end of the first year and a bit later for the S70 since it has 10,000 miles less (I also have a couple of options with Tesla's preowned models which would give me a non-extendable 4 years/50,000 miles but that would also run out before end of year 2).

Range is not a problem for me. Any of those will easily be able to handle that distance and charging is a non issue too as I will be either/or charging at home, at work, at a Supercharger near Heathrow or at another one at a 10 min drive from home.

So, yeah, the main concern regarding the car is: will it take it? Especially since the track record in terms of long term/high use doesn't seem to be exactly spotless...

- Second: will "I" take it? The whole idea of buying a Tesla is based on Autopilot being able to ease the pain enough so I can survive a 3h overall drive in dreary conditions + 9 to 10 hours of work as a software engineer at a cool, yet usually demanding company without losing my mind and soul?

To be honest that's the point that scares me the most. I know that AP doesn't make the MS an autonomous car (unfortunately) and before AP2 reaches that level I will probably have moved on to something else anyway so the question is: will the current state of AP will make the daily trip, if not enjoyable, at least bearable enough so I will keep a modicum of health and soul after a few months of that regimen?

I am super torn by those questions, the alternative being renting something local and not seeing my family at all during the week (considering my partner could really use some help at the moment).

And, er, that would also mean not buying the most awesome car ever.

I would hate having to do that.
 
See less See more
#2 ·
IMO the alternative of renting would be a non starter. Unless you dislike the family intensely, which clearly you don't, spending time with them is more important than anything else. That also means you need a Tesla .

I don't know what the price differential is between the cars you are looking at but for my money I'd buy a new 60 (or inventory), not least of all for the full warranty during your ownership.

I'm a new owner, only 2k miles under my belt, but I know the type of driving you are looking at doing and don't doubt for a second that AP2 even in its current form will make the journey as enjoyable as possible. TACC alone makes motorway driving far less stressful and AS is pretty damn good most of time too.

Although the 60 finishes any minute if you order you'll still have a fortnight before the order locks in (double check that though).

That's my tuppence worth anyway
 
#3 · (Edited)
In terms of depreciation I suspect a 60 with AP2 would probably cost you less than an older model. I also saw a noticeable difference in trim and build quality between our Dec 2016 Model S and the early 2014 I had from Chargemaster for a week.

I guess the genuinely green people (I am not one of them) would ask why you need to drive? Being on a train at end of day could be less stressful after a hard day work and good train service from MK. Is the idea that you can fund the Model S from "business" mileage and you have been hankering after one ;)

I have no experience, but I suspect except for TACC, Autopilot doesn't really help that much in very congested UK traffic, with cars cutting in, etc, What do those with it think?
 
#4 ·
I guess the genuinely green people (I am not one of them) would ask why you need to drive? Being on a train at end of day could be less stressful after a hard day work and good train service from MK. Is the idea that you can fund the Model S from "business" mileage and you have been hankering after one ;)
And that's what I've been doing for the past 4 years but if I were to take public transport to get to this new contract location that would take about 2:30-2:45 hours.

One way.

:(
 
#5 ·
Q1: will the car take it?
I've got a 2016 MS60D. I do 90 miles/day, mostly on the M4. At 15k miles, the car has been fine - no problems at all.

Q2: will I take it?
Very hard to say. AP does make the drive much easier; I would hate to lose it. I personally don't mind the mileage I do, but my wife says I'm more tired these days than when I took the train to my previous workplace. If you're driving this anyway, a Tesla is probably one of the least stressful ways to do it.

I am super torn by those questions, the alternative being renting something local and not seeing my family at all during the week (considering my partner could really use some help at the moment).
I was a consultant when my family was younger, and I was frequently away a lot during the week. If I had my time again, that's not a choice I would repeat.

I have no experience, but I suspect except for TACC, Autopilot doesn't really help that much in very congested UK traffic, with cars cutting in, etc, What do those with it think?
Actually, I find it fine.
 
#9 ·
Q1: will the car take it?
I was a consultant when my family was younger, and I was frequently away a lot during the week. If I had my time again, that's not a choice I would repeat.
Been there done that. Won't do it again if I can prevent it. That would be a bit silly really to resort doing that when I will only be 60 miles away from home (and that would cost me about the same as a monthly repayment on the Tesla anyway).

I don't know what the price differential is between the cars you are looking at but for my money I'd buy a new 60 (or inventory), not least of all for the full warranty during your ownership.
The cheapest preowned one would be the aforementioned S85 and it would cost me about £1,562 per month (I'm aggregating everything transportation related including taxes here).
A new S60 bought as a company car would cost me £1,734. Not an overly massive difference but at the end of an HP repayment the difference would make the S85 £10,000 cheaper than the S60.
Not exactly pocket money so worth taking into consideration.
 
#7 ·
Is there any reason you have to be physically located in the office 5 days a week every week? How about some remote working mixed in say travelling in on the Tuesday, staying at a travelodge etc on Tuesday night and then returning the Wednesday and having the Thursday and Friday as remote working? This way you are about at home more to make up for the odd night away.
 
#8 ·
On my last "long way from home" contract I did 4 days in office and WFH on Wed. That way I was only in hotels for Tue and Thu which was tolerable! Not all companies are open to WFH though...
 
#11 ·
What are the options?

Buy a diesel ice?
Buy a petrol ice?
Use the train?
Rent?
Buy a Tesla?

If your asking that question on here you will get a very biased opinion!!!!:cool::ROFLMAO:

If you are buying any car, then the most relaxing will be the Tesla. No question this side of a Rolls Royce, and probably the other side as well!
 
#13 ·
If your asking that question on here you will get a very biased opinion!!!!:cool::ROFLMAO:
And I am pretty biased myself anyway and if I can make it work for a Tesla that'd be pretty awesome.

That being said, I do have legitimate concerns about the car costs on the long term with a rather heavy use and even more so that my hope to alleviate the tiredness and stress of such a long daily trip might be misguided.

If I end up still renting something after buying a brand new MS the whole thing would become a pretty silly waste of money (a nice way to waste money admittedly but a massive waste of money nevertheless).
 
#14 ·
I have a feeling that AutoSteer will be a lot more than a gimmick for me and the i3 doesn't offer anything similar. So, no AS, same daily mileage, same everything really. Just not as much help as with a MS. Doesn't quite sound like what I'm looking for...

And the price difference between an i3 with ACC and traffic jam assist would be more akin to 500 quid (I did investigate a bit and ruled it out).
The only benefit of an i3 is price really (although it still hardly qualifies as cheap, especially with driving assist options).
 
#15 ·
The Ioniq Electric has TACC and lane and LKAS (Lane Keep Assist System) and I believe it could do that commute. Obviously a lot cheaper than Model S - Did you consider it and rule out? (Don't get me wrong I would much prefer a Model S)
 
#16 ·
I suspect the road commute will be closer to 2 hours more often than you would like. Just checked on Google maps and it's in the range 1h 10 - 1h 50 even for a week like this during Easter which will be a bit quieter. That's central milton keynes to central uxbridge. That's setting out at 7am. It's a wide variation too.

Public transport option was showing 90 minutes so I'd definitely double check how long it does take and try a few combinations of driving to a particular rail station if it has a good link to where you need to go as sometimes that can be a lot quicker.
 
#19 ·
I suspect the road commute will be closer to 2 hours more often than you would like. Just checked on Google maps and it's in the range 1h 10 - 1h 50 even for a week like this during Easter which will be a bit quieter. That's central milton keynes to central uxbridge. That's setting out at 7am. It's a wide variation too.

Public transport option was showing 90 minutes so I'd definitely double check how long it does take and try a few combinations of driving to a particular rail station if it has a good link to where you need to go as sometimes that can be a lot quicker.
Add 15 min to get to Wolverton Station (I live north of MK), then Wolverton-Euston, then Euston-Paddington via Circle, then wait for a train to West-Drayton, then 30 min walk or wait for the odd bus that will shave 10 min of the walk if I'm lucky.
Lather, rinse, repeat the other way around in the evening.

Don't know why but strangely enough I would rather do all the driving at a Tesla's wheel instead.

Go figure.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Is your Paddington jump using the Heathrow Express which gets you to Heathrow in 15 minutes or so?
Yep, that's the one. However I turn it, it always is longer than driving (unless I get stuck in a really nasty lock down but trains are pretty good at getting stuck in those too anyway).
Regular time (meaning Sunday in the middle of the night) is about 1:10 hour. I'm planning on leaving home early (5:30-6ish) which is what I was doing when going by train to Central London anyway and the average time I've followed for the past two weeks (I've been checking every morning on Google Maps) is around 1:45. That still beats the train by close to an hour (the trade-off being you can read/browse/watch series on the train and only listen to radio/podcasts/audiobooks in the car, but no waiting for yet another late train or fighting for your life to board an already overcrowded tube carriage).
 
#26 ·
I drive regularly down the M40, M1 or M11 then the M25 into Essex. Autopilot (AP1) on my Model S is an absolute godsend and makes the journey far more bearable. You still need to concentrate on what's going on but not to the same level and you only need to be resting one hand on the steering wheel (ready to take over if necessary). I do override the system about half the time for lane change manoeuvres on the motorway but only to complete it faster and I haven't had to take control back for any abnormal steering for months now.

The AP2 level system is at an earlier stage but from the comments is improving very rapidly and is now close to the AP1 functionality so I would suggest either will be a major help.
 
#27 ·
Having done some nasty commutes myself I've found that some decent podcasts can make the commute go reasonably well (things like How Stuff Works, Stuff you Missed in History Class, DotNetRocks etc.). But sadly the effect on physical fitness cannot be counteracted. Hopefully your new place has a gym you can hit at lunchtime??
 
#28 ·
Yes I thought about that and there's actually one AFAIK.

That being said, the plan is to try and arrive early to beat some of the worst of the morning traffic, and leave early to try and do the same in the evening which means that I probably won't have much time left for a gym session.

Still not my biggest concern at the moment anyway (let's deal with one problem at a time).
 
#29 ·
I love gadgets and tech but dropping £1500-£1700 a month on a Tesla just seems a little 'first world' obscene.
That's more than many earn in a month. Don't get me wrong if you work hard then play hard and reap the benefits but that's in the league of the super rich and not anything that most 'normal' EV drivers could ever aspire to. Whilst I'm trying not to sound like a social terrorist, I think I would be going for a cheaper EV like an Ioniq or i3 and spending the money else where.
 
#32 · (Edited)
I love gadgets and tech but dropping £1500-£1700 a month on a Tesla just seems a little 'first world' obscene.
That's more than many earn in a month.
I wholeheartedly agree with you this is rather insane indeed. The problem is that every other options I have left are actually not any less expensive.

But let me first briefly explain the way I'm calculating this: I am working as a contractor and getting most of my earnings via dividends from my one-man limited company. So in order to get the most realistic estimate of what every option I'm considering is going to cost me I'm taking into account the taxes I will be paying on the dividends I will need to draw from my business in order to pay for the car, and the interests I will be paying on it + estimated charging costs, etc. Literally everything transportation related so then I've got the most accurate picture I can get, and also so I can achieve the fairest comparison with past costs and other options.

Also, on top of those costs I also add the equivalent of almost 1 year of corporation tax:

- if I buy preowned, I will buy it privately, pay dividend taxes and pay corporation tax the first year.

- if I buy new, I will buy it via my limited company, won't use any dividends - nor taxes on dividends - other than those I will need to draw to pay for the BIK (Benefit in Kind) I will have to pay (both as an employee and as an employer). And finally, I will have a tax relief the first year amounting to almost a year of corporation tax.

That's why I am adding the corporation tax in my calculations because for one scenario I won't have to pay it the first year, and I will have for all the others.

Sooooo, why am I explaining all of this?

Because, if I apply the same rules to my past monthly costs for the past 4 years (as an example, it was more or less the same before, but other gigs), which included petrol for my ICE car to go to the train station + car park + train ticket (for Central London) + tube + road tax + petrol consumption for private use I ended up with a monthly cost of £1,598 (it fell down to £1,239 for the past year since my previous car was a gas guzzler and I changed a year ago but the car just broke down last week and first estimates are in the £4,000/complete engine replacement area so there goes the savings).

So yes, same price as the monthly cost of the Tesla.

Now let's look at some alternative options to fix my current conundrum:

- hotel during the week? £1,946 (i.e. Ibis hotel in Heathrow, decent enough but not great and certainly not 3 star + petrol to get there + road tax +... you know the drill)

- renting a dirt cheap B&B room? £1,595

- renting a (decent) room on spareroom.co.uk? £1,617

See where I'm getting at? Buying a Tesla is effin' expensive, but so is life in south-east UK! £5,000 per year just for the train ticket (and that's when buying yearly).
The price of a decent second-hand car.
Every. Bloody. Year.

(And moving closer wouldn't fix this either as property price goes proportionally up anyway).

So, yes, an i3 or Ioniq would cut the cost to a point, but I would be missing the full AP and AS in particular which is likely THE thing (with TACC, I know) that will make the commute possibly bearable.

Or not.
 
#30 ·
Having done 150 miles a day for a decade in the naughties mostly on the M25 - my key recommendation is to either seek to shift your hours to start as early as possible in both directions, or try to work from home.
Had I had a Tesla in those days then it would have been on Autopilot almost all the time. The main thing TACC and Autosteer does is to make queues and stop start driving far less of an issue - you only really need to keep your eyes open for dumbos unnecessarily changing lanes as TACC will seldom back down.
These days when on motorways my AP1 TACC and Autosteer are seldom off.
I can do 400 miles of motorway AP driving & get the same level of tiredness as I used to get in 100 miles in an ICE.
In my view in a non AP car it is all those microadjustments of speed and direction that tire you out.
 
#34 ·
Imagine a software engineer, self taught, that has been doing this for 20 odd years, going from fairly decent gigs to slightly better ones, hoping like many others to land at some point some really high profile one, you know, career changing one, but being realistic about it and never considering that would ever happen.

Except that sometimes, luck, like shit, happens.

So that would be me, and there is NO way I would turn that one down, and in particular because of a 60 miles commute.
 
#50 ·
So that would be me, and there is NO way I would turn that one down, and in particular because of a 60 miles commute.
FWIW - I've done a 60 mile daily commute in start/stop traffic the last ~10 years, and about 2 months of that in a Tesla and can wholeheartedly say it changed it from a menial, tedious schlep into something very manageable with both AP and TACC.

Whilst AP&TACC by no means replaces the driver and their duties, those micro-adjustments are the killer as mentioned above - easily 80% less fatigue on those 30mph/avg journeys.

Murphy's law at its best - 2 months after getting the Tesla my contract and client location changed :)
 
#44 ·
And if HMRC decides to hit you with IR35, due to your employer forcing you to work in their office, hence showing a large level of control……. (Redo the calcs, and you may decide a company car is not worth the risk.)

Also if the company owns a car, you can’t dispose of the company it if a contract goes wrong……
 
#46 · (Edited)
I realise this isnt massively helpful in a 'what car should I buy' thread. But.....

if you have a partner and young family that need you and an employer that far away who is unwilling to even contemplate you working from home even one day a week then I think you need to look for another job. Given that you are being paid enough to contemplate a Model S, your skills are obviously valuable and you are, I assume, definitely employable. There has to be an employer somewhere more accessible that will not require you to spend your kids formative years sitting in a car.

You only live life once and, in my humble opinion, your kids may need a dad more than you need a Model S.

PS. Apologies if I'm making inapropriate and sweeping assumptions !
 
#47 ·
I hear you but my point here by buying the car is actually to still be able to see my daughter everyday.

Dropping the job would just mean dropping the biggest opportunity I've ever dreamed of honestly, and for most certainly trading it for another job in London, with 3 chances out 4 of it being as poorly located anyway.

Definitely a lose-lose situation in my opinion.
 
#48 ·
I hear you but my point here by buying the car is actually to still be able to see my daughter everyday.

Dropping the job would just mean dropping the biggest opportunity I've ever dreamed of honestly, and for most certainly trading it for another job in London, with 3 chances out 4 of it being as poorly located anyway.

Definitely a lose-lose situation in my opinion.
I'm with you on this one. I've been putting up with longish commutes for years because I didn't want to uproot my wife who has some nasty health issues every few years and the local job market doesn't offer anything attractive. After coping with high commuting costs for several years I went for a Prius back in 2007 which cut the cost dramatically and was actually a pleasant long distance car. The last Prius was a big disappointment and made everything very tiring but the Model S has been a complete revelation in lots of ways. Even on my shorter commute of around 40 miles I use autopilot on the dual carriageway bits (about half the time) and on my longer motorway based commutes it's superb. You do have to monitor it, but the workload is much lower.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top