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Discussion Starter #1
Sorry to start new thread as I know this topic has been discussed but I can't work out how renault can sell the Zoe so cheap ( compared to leaf or i3)
If the battery is worth the quoted £9000 then leasing it out at £45 pcm makes no business sense as it would take 16.5 years to just get their money back. So either it is worth diddly squat to them or they have an impressive expectation of it's longevity ?
So I think the whole car price must be ramped up to (a) claim maximum grant and (b) to put people off buying. And I think they must cover all their costs (including battery ) on the basic price and all the residual lease revenue is a bonus ?
All a dodgy conspiracy ?
 

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I think the battery residual value is quite high, if its worth 66% when "dead" then it's only what.. 5.5 years?
(I only guessed those numbers)
 

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I think £9k is an over assessment. The difference between Leaf as Flex or non-Flex is £5k, I think that's a big clue (although there is a benefit to nissan to getting that £5k up front rather than over time through the lease)
 

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When we insure our cars Renault ask us to ensure that the value of the battery is also included in the cars overall value. They say we should add £7300. So the £14k Zoe would cost £21k if battery was included. And given that I have a monthly cost of £93 battery hire, this means that I'll have paid for the battery in about 6.5 years.
Maybe Renault are simply confident that their batteries will last many years (or those that have a low mileage won't notice or miss the gradual deterioration in capacity)?
 

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£7300 might be the cost to a repairer, but I'm confident it's not the cost to Renault!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I think the battery residual value is quite high, if its worth 66% when "dead" then it's only what.. 5.5 years?
(I only guessed those numbers)
Yes, I wondered if that was a factor but that would mean collecting all the batteries back for the residual value, as I can't see people still shelling out the same monthly lease payments in 5 year's time on outdated technology, I imagine they will have to offer a battery upgrade to retain lease customers.
 

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£7300 might be the cost to a repairer, but I'm confident it's not the cost to Renault!
Good point but I'm sure that's what we'd be charged if we were ever allowed to buy one. I wonder what they cost in Norway (where they are part of the purchase)?
 

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Ah, £7300 is probably the cost the battery if you bought the car. If that car burnt to the ground, Renault would want that value back from your insurers as it was their battery. At the end of the lease (5 years?) the battery with 65-70% of its original capacity is still worth, say, £4-5,000. At that point the may sell it to the dealer/own - it's happened already on a Nissan Leaf, the main dealer bought out the lease from Nissan.
Given the huge mark ups on spare parts from main dealer, I somehow doubt that Renault would actually sell you one for £7,300...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The trouble is that a 5 year old Zoe is unlikely to be worth more than 4k in total (and probably £200 without battery!) So to whom could the battery be worth £4-5000 ?
 

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The trouble is that a 5 year old Zoe is unlikely to be worth more than 4k in total (and probably £200 without battery!) So to whom could the battery be worth £4-5000 ?
No-one. Stationary storage is a nice idea, but if in five years time £200 per kWh is achieved by Tesla (seems likely) and your 70% battery now has 16.8kwh, it can't be worth more than £3,360. I would say significantly less than that, because the real health of the cells is unknown, there's no warranty, and you have to spend time/money disassembling the pack and disposing of the parts you don't need before doing anything with the cells.
 

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The trouble is that a 5 year old Zoe is unlikely to be worth more than 4k in total (and probably £200 without battery!) So to whom could the battery be worth £4-5000 ?
People like this -
http://green.autoblog.com/2014/02/18/used-nissan-leaf-batteries-support-solar-energy-system-japan/
There's another pic somewhere of the container open, with racks of leaf batteries inside...

No-one. Stationary storage is a nice idea, but if in five years time £200 per kWh is achieved by Tesla (seems likely) and your 70% battery now has 16.8kwh, it can't be worth more than £3,360. I would say significantly less than that, because the real health of the cells is unknown, there's no warranty, and you have to spend time/money disassembling the pack and disposing of the parts you don't need before doing anything with the cells.
Yes, I completely agree, but Renault's finance team are working with numbers that are know today...
It's all very well talking about what Tesla may achieve with battery tech in the next five years, but accountants don't work like that...

Personally, I'm hoping to be able to pick up a used/damaged Nissan/Renault/Mitsubishi battery pack in a year or two for under a thousand. Park it under the bench in the garage and with some mild tinkering go almost completely off grid...
 
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