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Discussion Starter #1
Just browsing through the forums & thinking about buying an EV in a year or two.

The Zoe certainly looks an interesting car, but I am confused regarding paying extra for a battery, compared to hiring one.

How long does the battery stay above 60% for?

If you hired a battery, I know it would be replaced when it dropped below a certain level, but
how does that compare pricewise to buying it outright?

I wonder if there are any tests which compare leasing with buying batteries with the car?

Many thanks

Steven
 

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Hi Steven,

Welcome to the forum/awesome community :)

The battery hire might not even be around then - the fact Renault and Nissan are now in alliance - and only Renault do it means if sales suffer they might well drop it. (or drop it for future plans)

I personally lease my battery - I am going from used purchased to new PCP so chances are next time I will go for an I - if only keeping the car for 3 years anyway. I personally want to be able to just use my car and not worry about where the charge should be - and what steps I should take to prevent degradation. Some people on here don't like that -but I don't give a dam. My car was charged to 100% then I did a few miles so it was 84 so I topped it back up again. (I can hear them cringing as I wrote that - lol)

Batterys last a long time - this video is from a well respected Electrochemist - his word is good enough for most people


To hire a battery for 10,500 miles a year is currently £3600 (ish) I believe this can be the same cost for an I model - However you can PCP a car with unlimited miles as well.
 

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I would only do around 5,000 miles (or less) a year. Looking at the video, I probably would buy the car with the battery, unless there is an agreement not to?
 

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Hi Steven, I think the general rule of thumb is if you are buying on a PCP or PCH deal and going to hand the car back to Renault after three years then lease the battery, if you are going to keep it or sell privately then buy the battery.
 

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Well the lease would be £49 a month for 4500 miles £59 for 6000 (I think)
 

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Really? takes about £4.20 to charge a Ze40 - which car does 230MPG?

I bet £49 could do what max of 600 miles in a ICE car - an EV you are talking thousands.

you will pay a lot more for an I model so weigh up however long you plan to keep it in lease compared the full value

typical example is 12K for lease 17K for I £3600 based on 3 years so a saving of a few K on leased. That's what I was offered anyway
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks...I think I read your post too quickly - missed the word 'lease'.

I have no intention of leasing a car, as am intending to buy and keep it for at least 5+ years. My query was
purely the logic of leasing the battery, which other EV car makers don't have anymore.
 

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The battery tech is pretty solid in the Zoe, so I wouldn't be expecting much degradation.

The general rule I'd apply is if you're looking to trade up to a new car after 2-3 years and you do fairly low miles, then the lease is a good deal.

For higher mileage drivers and those that buy a car and keep it for over 3 years then it may be better to own the battery outright.

It's generally easier to sell an 'i' model car, as I understand it. Although there aren't that many around.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks..that really helps. I'm torn between a Nissan Leaf or a Zoe. The balls out which one I'll get, but
a year is a long time (when I hope to buy an EV!).
 

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Thanks...I think I read your post too quickly - missed the word 'lease'.

I have no intention of leasing a car, as am intending to buy and keep it for at least 5+ years. My query was
purely the logic of leasing the battery, which other EV car makers don't have anymore.
Sorry i was referring to the battery lease - and yes you are right only Renault do it and they need to come out of the 80's IMHO

Battery hire | Renault Finance | Services | Renault UK

Drive them both - that's what I did - I liked the Zoe better - but as you say in 1-2 years who knows what will be about!
 

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How long does the battery stay above 60% for?
I assume you are asking about 60% of original capacity and not 60% state of charge.


Production EV battery technology is changing rapidly. The batteries Renault are using today are no the same as what they were putting in cars two years ago. LEAF has gone through at least four generations of battery since 2010. Nissan are expected to introduce another battery in a month or two.

We can't say for sure how long the battery in a 2019 Zoe or LEAF will last because no one has had them long enough. Generally the newer batteries are holding up better than the previous generations. Reports of early capacity loss in 2016-2017 LEAF 30 turned out to be a software error.

The very oldest 2010 LEAFs are getting close to 60-70% now. Some may be worse.

Capacity loss depends on Age, miles, charge cycles, temperature and how the battery is managed. There are some specific things that are bad for the battery. For example plugging in a LEAF when the battery is already at or above 98% state of charge is going to cost capacity.





If you hired a battery, I know it would be replaced when it dropped below a certain level, but
how does that compare pricewise to buying it outright?
In the US where high ambient temperatures caused early failure of first-generation batteries, a new 24kWh pack was $5000 plus labour.

There is a very long thread on the US mynissanleaf site about replacements for old LEAF 24. --> How long 'til 4th bar drops? - My Nissan Leaf Forum

In Japan Nissan are offering "refabricated" 24kWh batteries for about $3000. There was a press release a few months ago.

Here in the UK Mike Schooling does something similar by using battery modules from salvaged cars.


A brand new LEAF 30 battery pack is $7,600 in Japan. I'm not aware of any LEAF 30 in the UK needing an all new pack.


Nissan to offer battery replacement program - ElecTrans
 

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"Hiring a battery keeps monthly costs affordable*

I disagree renault - 320 a month for a car is hardly affordable - when you can get an I model for less! even on PCP!

Plug Life TV shows how charging a car from 100% from 80% is the most damaging for degradation. My old car's first battery was on 98% after 15k and 2.5 years - replacement is 100% so far. My replacement was an upgrade and not due to degradation - I hasten to add.
 

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Coming out of the 80? Not looking for an argument but.
1) there is a choice. A choice other brands do not give. It's for at least two years now completely up to the buyer;
2) if anything, the world is going to pay-what-you-use and if you have a fair look at the rates, that is basically what it is;
3) financing seems to be a far bigger thing in the Ango-Saksian world than mainland Europe, at least when I see this very forum that is stuffed with PCP deals, GFT's and other TLA's that I luckily don't understand.

All in all I'd say it's modern concept, that helped a lot of people scared of battery degradation, and is not for everyone. That doesn't ring like 80's. Having said that, we know from @Badger in Black that the % of battery rental cars is steadily going down. And I fully agree the partial rent (frame), partial rent (battery) complicates things.

What I think is blurring the picture is that lots of people love to buy a second hand ZOE, start with the (battery rental) catalog price as a reference, get all giddy about it, and then something doesn't add up.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Have you driven either of them yet?
Not yet. I'm at the research stage. As I said in my post above, I'm not planning on buying an EV for a year. My old Ford Focus (from 2003!) is still going strong, but an EV is definitely for me within two years. When I am near buying I'll be test driving one. I've never driven an automatic (40+ years driving), so, will have to keep my left foot away from the phantom clutch ;)
 

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Don't do what I did and slam it on the brake! not good and bad for the neck and forehead :/ lol
 

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ut an EV is definitely for me within two years.
Unless you plan on buying a used one, you can pretty much ignore any answers you get here.

Battery tech is changing rapidly. Nissan are due to replace the LEAF in 2020 with an all new car. The current LEAF is merely a facelift of the model they've been building since 2010.

Zoe will probably have a 60kWh battery by then and be at price parity with Clio. Hard to predict if Renault will still offer battery lease or all cars will be batteries included.

Several all-new EVs are due in 2020. Peugeot 208 EV might be of interest to you.
 
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