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Sorry got that wrong it is 8 years
Yea it was 5yrs on the 22kWh model, and is 8yrs on the 41kWh model.

But the car warranty was 4yrs on the 22kWh model and 41kWh model, but only up to around 2018, where it was reduced to 3yrs....

Then there is also the 5yr warranty on the electric power train on the 22kWh models, which was reduced to 4yrs on the 41kWh models...

Nice and simple...lol!
 

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This subject has come up quite a few times and it's always a good one to have the thread rage on for quite a while. My take
  • no, Renault is not moving to rent only, quite the opposite. In the past it was rent only. now there is choice
  • choice is good. For one, rent is a huge silly no no, for others it's the opposite. I don't care a toss who is in what camp, everybody's situation (financial, experience, fear, PCP-or-buy, etc) is different. I never understood why people have been p***ing on choice / on others choosing different than they do themselves. Do your own due diligence.
  • the point of renting is not only a protection against a suddenly knackered battery (there is the warranty you know). While closely related it is to take away the degradation fear (one often played by the anti-EV crowd). I admit that was one that drew me to the ZOE with back then only te rent option, as all my phone and laptop batteries died in two years. Oh my innocence about car batteries 6 years ago.........
  • most of all, battery rent makes the car a lot cheaper up front
I don't find it clear as mud at all. Though as argued above, you've been fed some nonsense and that doesn't help at all. I am actually with @freddym on this one!

out of interest, whats you battery % on now ?
 

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In all my calculations, the battery-lease model has never been cheaper under any scenario, based on the current secondhand values and markets. I have posted precise figures to back this up in the past, in answer to numerous individual scenarios.

By all means go for a battery-lease model for other reasons, but be aware that it will not be cheaper in real terms when compared to buying a battery-owned model, no matter what your mileage or period of ownership is.
 

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Based on 5yr old cars? 2013 battery owned?

As @proddick regularly says, no one knows what any of the cars will be worth as they get older

Assuming depreciation curves are parallel is a big leap of faith IMHO!
I.e. will the gap still be the same at 8 years when owned now has no warranty and leased has lifetime?

Did you use a % or a set £ value?

JJ
 

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The main put-off for me wasn't so much leasing the battery for the first 3 years, it was that there is no option to buy the battery at the end of it
This is certainly the biggest thing making me extremely hesitant about buying ours at the end of the PCP. If we could, we'd definitely keep it, but as you say it seems crazy to still be paying full price for the battery while the rest of the car slowly falls to bits. The alternative is to buy it and sell it while the battery lease is still in proportion to the value of the car, but with the unknown rate of change in the ev market this is a bit of a risk in itself.

I'd love to know what will happen to all the Zoes with leased batteries as the years roll on.
 

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I'd love to know what will happen to all the Zoes with leased batteries add the years roll on.
Realistically, Renault will eventually lose track of them through administrative incompetence and people will just remove the TCU and get a free battery, as we said in another thread.
 

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Co-author of CanZE. Q210 nov 2013
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Realistically, as in, what really happened and was decribed in that thread, the battery charging is being disabled. While disabling the TCU is no crime and will give some leeway, not paying the rent is theft. Trusting on administrative incompetence is treading on thin ice, QED. Now nicked and exported cars, that is probably another story.

Right now, ZOEs with rented batteries are still changing owners quite nicely. There is still a lot of degradation anxiety. I think it's fair to say that EV batteries in general (a few brands excluded) are holding up very, very well and it's not a far fetched idea that the car will be knackered before the battery is. Mine (car and battery) will trod on for probably another 6 years / 100.000 kms. If things go like they are going now (ignoring battery-gate theories), the battery would be at 80% probably.

A fairer question would be: "I'd love to know what will happen to all the leased batteries as the years roll on [and the cars die]." And that question has been long answered. AFAIK the first couple of solar powered, old-ZOE-batteries-buffered charging stations are being deployed in - - - the UK.
 

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My Zoe 40 Q90 was brand new in june 2017 and is battery owed i went for this so at any point i can sell the car without strings.
Plus i have saved around £1,000 a year on fuel cost's and have just done 30,000 miles and the battery state of health is 95%,
Charging from home ( 13p per Kw ) for 15,000 miles has cost around £300 a year .
My 2 year old VW Polo 1.4 petrol was costing about £1300 a year and even now i don't use the car for work , all the miles are just driving anywhere and everywhere its that cheap to run.
 

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A fairer question would be: "I'd love to know what will happen to all the leased batteries as the years roll on [and the cars die]."
Is this a different question, though? I'm not worried about how long the battery lasts, I'm worried about paying full price for the battery for a not-dead-but-thoroughly-depreciated car where the value of the car is well into the cheap runabout region but the battery isn't. it would be like having a car where you can see through the rust holes in the floor but you still have to pay to replace the engine with a brand new one.

There's no option to let the cost of the battery degrade in step with the car. If someone only wants a car to do short runs a few times a month they can buy an old banger for a few hundred pounds, so there will always be a market for old non-lease cars of any age; all these Zoes are not an option for that given the minimum annual cost is £708 for a ZE40, so what do you do instead when you don't want it any more? Leave the doors unlocked with a "steal me" sign on the dash? "Accidentally" set fire to it and hope your insurance company doesn't find out?
 

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@Firefury I've got a 64 plate Zoe with battery hire (10,500 miles cost me £65 a month) for sale at the moment. Only £7150, comes with extended Renault warranty for the mechanicals not covered by battery hire, and 4 new Michelin EV tyres fitted.
 

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Co-author of CanZE. Q210 nov 2013
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Is this a different question, though?
It is! I am arguing it's a far more relevant question (though answered), as it looks like under normal conditions, the battery will actually outlive the car ;) And let me help half the lot hanging out here: "especially since it is a Renault" :D
 

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Discussion Starter #33
so what do you do instead when you don't want it any more? Leave the doors unlocked with a "steal me" sign on the dash? "Accidentally" set fire to it and hope your insurance company doesn't find out?
I know that people have said that Renault don't let you reuse batteries from scrapped cars, but that has to change at some point in the future. So presumably eventually you'll be able to go to the scrap yard and buy an owned battery from a wreck and swap your leased battery out.

Probably take some time for that to be possible, given the existence of lawyers, etc. though. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Biggest headache is sorting out the electronics which have memory that restricts swapping components.
Well, the reason we have a standardised OBDII port in our cars is because the courts tend to uphold the right to repair your own stuff, so those restrictions will probably go away at some point. But as I said, lawyers! :)
 

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There's no option to let the cost of the battery degrade in step with the car.
Based on Kangoo ZE 22Kwh vans, we may see that in future. The vans have a lower cost rental for 60% capacity. I am thinking of getting one and renting out on Turo for local use.

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The wife's Peugeot 207 has written itself off so she's in the market for a new car - not yet decided on dinosaur-juice or EV, or new or used, just investigating the options at the moment.

We went for a test drive of a Zoe at a Renault dealer and liked the car, but after talking to the sales man the whole battery leasing thing sounds clear as mud to me. According to him:

  • Batteries cost about £6000 (i.e. buying the battery outright adds about £6k to the cost of the car and replacing a dead battery would be about £6k)
  • The battery warranty is 4 years.
  • A battery lease is £110/month (unlimited mileage).
  • The whole point of leasing a battery is so you don't have a crippling £6k bill if the battery dies.
  • There's no option to buy a leased battery at any point - you're stuck paying the £110/month bill for the life of the car.
  • Renault are withdrawing the option of buying a battery outright and the new model will only come with leased batteries.
None of this makes much sense to me.

If the battery comes with a 4 year warranty, then that means we only need to worry about it dieing after 4 years. But the lease will have cost over £6000 in under 5 years, so it seems to make little financial sense to lease instead of buy. The Renault website actually says the warranty is 8 years, not the 4 that we were told by the sales man, and if that's true it makes the lease even more of a waste of money.

Also, with no option to buy out the lease, you're left with the prospect of having to fork out £110/month even when the car is ancient. As someone who generally runs their car until it breaks in a way that is uneconomic to repair, this doesn't sit well with me because it means that at some point you're forced to throw away a perfectly good (albeit old) car just because its not worth paying the battery lease.

He also said that used Zoes are almost universally leased batteries, and for me the prospect of Renault withdrawing the option to buy the battery outright on new cars sounds bonkers. The whole concept of battery leasing seems to make the whole thing expensive and shorten the life of the car - its doing quite a good job of convincing us to buy another petrol car instead of an EV.

Can anyone comment on how this works and whether we have been given accurate information? (In case it matters, we're considering the ZE40 battery).

Thanks.
I contacted my dealer today about the ZE50, they have a battery owned Dynamique i 66 plate with 22000 miles in White due in if you don't want to take the leased battery option
 

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I contacted my dealer today about the ZE50, they have a battery owned Dynamique i 66 plate with 22000 miles in White due in if you don't want to take the leased battery option
Trading up? You won the pools? ;)
 

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Considering it, seeing as I got a fantastic PCP deal on the Q90.
I'm hoping I will get a good trade in with current second hand prices and though I know there's not going to be the same fantastic deal it may still be worth looking at.
 
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