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One area where leasing is a benefit is if there is a problem with the battery. It's rare, but at least one Zoe owner on here had a pack failure. Because their battery was owned rather than leased, their pack had to be removed and shipped back to France for repair, returned and refitted, which meant they were without their car for weeks. If you lease, then a replacement pack is sent out for a swap over, which would reduce the inconvenience. It's not common, but worth bearing in mind. If you are planning a PCP and return after 3 years, then leasing the battery probably makes more sense.
 

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Zoe Devotee
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One area where leasing is a benefit is if there is a problem with the battery. It's rare, but at least one Zoe owner on here had a pack failure. Because their battery was owned rather than leased, their pack had to be removed and shipped back to France for repair, returned and refitted, which meant they were without their car for weeks. If you lease, then a replacement pack is sent out for a swap over, which would reduce the inconvenience. It's not common, but worth bearing in mind. If you are planning a PCP and return after 3 years, then leasing the battery probably makes more sense.
At least 1 person with battery hire has had their pack replaced too. The difference is half their motor was changed before RCI accepted it was battery and then a replacement was shipped. Took months.
 

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No EV specialists near you, Sandy? Got a fair price for my 66 plate as the Hyundai dealer I was trading it to flogged it to an EV specialist they knew.
 

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Zoe Devotee
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Beats me, I'm in Central Scotland. None that I know of locally. :/
 

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I guess you also think the millions of people who rent houses are not good at maths too?

I did get As and am very happy with the numbers. I put £6K in Bricklane rather than a battery as that should grow whereas a battery will depreciate.

Anyone who uses current and past EV price performance as an indicator of the future is nieve. We have no way of predicting how much any Zoe will be worth in 5 years. Mine is currently worth more as a private sale than I paid over a year ago, which is clearly bonkers.

Personally I like the 75% SOC guarantee (vs 66% on battery owned) the battery lease provides and am confident that after 5 years I will have no issue selling to someone for low mileage, local driving who values the ongoing warranty.

Again, there is choice and each to their own...
You'll have no issue selling it in 5 years.... For £4k-5k like all the hundreds of used battery lease zoes on autotrader there that dont sell... Meanwhile the batery owned ones sell there instantly for 6-8k more than the leased ones, basically the battery is the only item in the whole car which doesn't depreciate (or does so very little)
Meanwhile your lease is all money thrown in the bin with 100% depreciation.

Buying a house is cheaper than renting. Hence why people buy them to rent them for profit. Reason why milions rent is because buying requires a high deposit. If you were given the choice between getting a £500/month mortgage for 40 years, with some money back when you lived there for X years if you move out, versus a £700 rent for life with nothing back when you leave, then you'd buy.


The 6k you "invest" will give you what? £600 profit over 3 years?

You pay £3000 for 3 years of lease, make 600 profit off Brickwhatever, costs you £2400
You then withdraw the 6000 off the Bricklane

I pay £0 of lease = £0 costs.
I then sell the owned batery car for 6000+ more than you sell yours.

I fail to see your point.

Ps: I never seen a 60-74% SOH zoe.
 

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You'll have no issue selling it in 5 years.... For £4k-5k like all the hundreds of used battery lease zoes on autotrader there that dont sell... Meanwhile the batery owned ones sell there instantly for 6-8k more than the leased ones, basically the battery is the only item in the whole car which doesn't depreciate (or does so very little)
Meanwhile your lease is all money thrown in the bin with 100% depreciation.

Buying a house is cheaper than renting. Hence why people buy them to rent them for profit. Reason why milions rent is because buying requires a high deposit. If you were given the choice between getting a £500/month mortgage for 40 years, with some money back when you lived there for X years if you move out, versus a £700 rent for life with nothing back when you leave, then you'd buy.


The 6k you "invest" will give you what? £600 profit over 3 years?

You pay £3000 for 3 years of lease, make 600 profit off Brickwhatever, costs you £2400
You then withdraw the 6000 off the Bricklane

I pay £0 of lease = £0 costs.
I then sell the owned batery car for 6000+ more than you sell yours.

I fail to see your point.

Ps: I never seen a 60-74% SOH zoe.
Clearly we aren't going to agree so let's leave it for now and come back in 4 years and see how my £6K in Bricklane has done and compare the Zoe used prices and costs.
 

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One area where leasing is a benefit is if there is a problem with the battery. It's rare, but at least one Zoe owner on here had a pack failure. Because their battery was owned rather than leased, their pack had to be removed and shipped back to France for repair, returned and refitted, which meant they were without their car for weeks. If you lease, then a replacement pack is sent out for a swap over, which would reduce the inconvenience. It's not common, but worth bearing in mind. If you are planning a PCP and return after 3 years, then leasing the battery probably makes more sense.
Under my calculations, even if I have to buy a brand new battery when the car is 8 years old, is still cheaper than leasing

Buy leased with haggling = 13k
8 years of lease = 9k
Total 22k
Sell used (current cheapest lease zoe on autotrader) = 6.5k
22k-6.5k = 15.5k total cost

Buy battery owned with haggling= 19k
Lease = £0
Buy brand new battery pack in 8 years= £8k
Total= £27k
Sell used (cheapest owned battery zoe on market) = 12k
27k-12k= 15k

EVEN NEEDING A NEW BATTERY is Cheaper.

Let's not forget that in 99% of the cases you will also not buy a new battery for it. In which case you'd end up with 8k better off owning the battery.


Fell free to show me any model/comparison where leased battery pays off. I never seen one.
 

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You have £6k more money you need to find on day one, not everyone has access to cheap money. I also expect the resale values in 8 years time will not be as predicted.
 

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You have £6k more money you need to find on day one, not everyone has access to cheap money. I also expect the resale values in 8 years time will not be as predicted.
Battery owned models will always be worth 6k-8k more than leased models regaedless of depreciation.

Even if a 8 year old owned battery was worth the SAME (never will) as a leased one, buying would still be cheaper as its cheaper than leasing for 8 years. (even if you get a loan to pay the £6-7k premium initial price)
 

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Discussion Starter #73
EVs are too new for a good prediction of depreciation, but if I were to guess I would say:

EVs are improving fairly rapidly (e.g. range and charging speed), which means that older EVs will rapidly become vastly inferior to the newer ones. i.e. a ZE20 has a range of about 90 miles, but hopefully in a few years EVs will routinely do 400 miles on a charge - the old ZE20 is going to be significantly inferior to a new EV.

Compare to a petrol car - you might get slightly better fuel efficiency on a brand new car, but fundamentally a 10 year old petrol car isn't that different to a brand new one.

So my guess is that the current EVs will depreciate faster than fossil fueled cars have.

Coming back to battery leasing: some people obviously like avoiding the higher up-front costs of buying the battery, but it seems to me that leasing gets less worthwhile as the car ages whilst costing the same, so I'm going to be surprised if battery leased cars don't depreciate a lot faster than owned ones. I just can't see people wanting to buy an 8 year old car that ties them into a battery lease that costs them the same as it did when the car was new...
 

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EVs are too new for a good prediction of depreciation, but if I were to guess I would say:

EVs are improving fairly rapidly (e.g. range and charging speed), which means that older EVs will rapidly become vastly inferior to the newer ones. i.e. a ZE20 has a range of about 90 miles, but hopefully in a few years EVs will routinely do 400 miles on a charge - the old ZE20 is going to be significantly inferior to a new EV.

Compare to a petrol car - you might get slightly better fuel efficiency on a brand new car, but fundamentally a 10 year old petrol car isn't that different to a brand new one.

So my guess is that the current EVs will depreciate faster than fossil fueled cars have.

Coming back to battery leasing: some people obviously like avoiding the higher up-front costs of buying the battery, but it seems to me that leasing gets less worthwhile as the car ages whilst costing the same, so I'm going to be surprised if battery leased cars don't depreciate a lot faster than owned ones. I just can't see people wanting to buy an 8 year old car that ties them into a battery lease that costs them the same as it did when the car was new...
The leased ones are the ones that will suffer the most from any EV progress (like we seen the leased ze20's drop do 5k when the 40 came out, yet the oned ze20s were still worth not far of what they cost). Another reason to go owned.
I kinda disagree with ev's depreciating more, if you look at the used market a used zoe/lease with battery owned, 8 years old, its still worth 8-10K or more. grab any 8 year old ICE of the same price (golf/megane/etc) and its worth £1k. As much the depreciation accelerates for "old tech EV's", i think that such advances on technology will depreciate even faster the ICE market and may actually boost the "old tech ev's" from ice owners swapping into the obvious EV shift of the market
 

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I am expecting a very different 2nd hand EV market in a few years as the many EV being leased as company cars (due to 0% BIK) come off lease. At about the same time we will have the effect of a reduction in battery costs and much more production capacity for new EVs with car makers facing the next round of CO2 fines if they don't sell (or giveaway) all these EVs.
 

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@X4dow
If you think an 8 year old car of any sort is going to be worth £12k then you are off your head!!!

And try selling a car by saying “it needs a new £8k engine but it’ll be worth it”

Or are you gonna pay out £8k just before you sell it to get this £12k? Therefore it’s only worth £4k no?

Not sure how you can say the battery doesn’t depreciate when it’s capacity reduces over time?

Here’s a Q - would you pay the same for a brand new battery and a 3yr old one?

If the answer is no then it depreciates

JJ
 

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Perhaps the solution is for Renault to lapse or sell the leases cheaply after a certain period. As an ICE owner with a 2009 car which passed its MOT this month without even a service and has a low annual mileage there is no way I want to get a lease Zoe where it costs me 16+p a mile for battery lease alone, before fuel is added to the cost.

I keep my cars a long time and would know enough not to prematurely degrade the battery, and the cost of a lease, perhaps acceptable in a new car, would be have major impacts on lifetime cost.
 

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Agreed - but with people trying to make a decision on how to get into EVs, dispelling untruths is the only way to facilitate this.

We need EVs to improve the air quality in UK cities and not many people can afford to pay £22k for a Ford Fiesta sized car.

What is more palatable is £240/month with no fuel costs.

Some of the “facts” being offered are so far from the truth it’s laughable really.

If we want to put people off then we are going the right way about it

JJ
 

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@X4dow
If you think an 8 year old car of any sort is going to be worth £12k then you are off your head!!!

And try selling a car by saying “it needs a new £8k engine but it’ll be worth it”

Or are you gonna pay out £8k just before you sell it to get this £12k? Therefore it’s only worth £4k no?

Not sure how you can say the battery doesn’t depreciate when it’s capacity reduces over time?

Here’s a Q - would you pay the same for a brand new battery and a 3yr old one?

If the answer is no then it depreciates

JJ
Please link me the cheapest 3 year old Zoe 40 and 6 year old zoe 20 with battery ownership and lease. then we chat
 
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