[squeezeboxman]

Hi all,
not got an EV yet, but certainly intend to before the end of the year. Been leaning towards the e-niro 3, but loss of the grant made me rethink.. Is it possible/worthwhile/pie-in-the-sky, to get an e-niro 2 with grant and upgrade the battery to 64kWh? Is it doable and would it be cheaper than an e-niro 3.. Not really that bothered about all the extra bells & whistles on the 3 versus the 2, but I would much prefer the bigger battery for my regular trips from Yorkshire to Pembrokeshire - about 350 miles.
Also on the subject of batteries, is there yet any hard and fast data about much longer term battery life eg compared to the possible 10-15 year life of a car ? Are there any 15 year old evs yet, and if so, how are their batteries doing ?

 

[squeezeboxman]

Just realised they do do a 64kWh e-niro 2 now... Puts a new spin on things..

 

[Xinix]

As to your first post: no way would that have been possible. Maybe in 10 years time when OEMs will get a piece of the replacement pie.

Regarding battery life:no, there are no 15 year old EVs yet, but there are 9 year old EVs like the GM Volt that are showing excellent results. Of course it helps that they only use 60% of the battery's capactity, so what the real degradation is is anyone's guess. There are also examples of high mileage Teslas that still have very good SoH values. But calendar aging will show when the calendar has done its work

In general, batteries, especially liquid cooled batteries, are expected to last the lifetime of the car. FWIW, I bought my e-Niro, a car that was actually way more expensive than any other car I ever owned, with the intention of keeping it a minimum of 10 years. I am quite convinced that should not be a problem. With the 64 kWh battery you can afford 15% degradation and still have a very usable car. There's the usual caveats and the usual tips to keep your battery in the best of shapes. Hyundai did a nice video on it

This is what they recommend

1. Do not discharge to low levels
2. Charge more frequently, instead of only when needed
3. Do not accelerate heavily all the time
4. Park in the shade
5. Lower the charging limit

These are all tips that are generic for all Lithium-Ion batteries so should be no surprise.The fact that Hyundai, Kia and other vendors have pretty long warranty periods on their batteries, should help you not to worry. If manufacturers suspected the batteries to break down after 5 years, they'd think twice before mass-producing and mass-selling EVs

 

[andrew*debbie]

Are there any 15 year old evs yet, and if so, how are their batteries doing ?

MOst or all 15 year old EVs used Lead Acid or NiMH batteries!

LEAF and Mitusbishi iMiev and Tesla Roadster were the first production EVs to use LiIon., Tesla offered a battery update for the Roadster.

Twelve year old LEAFs with their ancient battery chemistry are mostly worn out now. So are the cars. Not really worth replacing the battery although a few people do.
Nissan had a program to replace 1st gen packs with 2nd gen packs but that is long over since they ran out of spare parts ages ago.

Battery tech has improved greatly since then. My 2017 LEAF (3rd gen battery) lost a lot less capacity than my 2014(2nd gen battery) did.

 

[Electrickery]

The worry about battery longevity really stems from people's experiences with mobile phones, which never seem to last more than a few years.

However, mobile phone batteries get an absolute hammering in comparison, most people charge from empty to full, ie full cycles every day.
Restrict the top end charge, ie to 80%, cars have relatively fewer charge cycles, ie 500 charge cycles on a car (that's the equivalent of 2 years of a mobile phone) with a 200 mile range would be 100,000 mile range.

Look after your phone battery in a similar way to how your car looks after its battery, and longevity can be hugely increased
I have a 6 year old laptop which has a feature to only charge to 80%, and it's been set like that since I've owned it. Battery SOH is still at 90%
Newer laptops I own which don't have this feature show far worse degradation, one is only a year old and soh is around 85%, so it does appear it makes a real difference, possibly more than ageing alone does. Obviously these are different battery packs etc so it isn't a perfect comparison, but the battery tech is effectively the same.