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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys,

Just bought a brilliant (I thought) leaf from a local second hand dealer. Asked all the reg questions including how many bars on the dash for the battery....he said 12.

As this was click and collect I went and got the car....and as I was driving back I noticed it was only 11bars. Only then did find out about these forums and leaf spy etc. Anyway, the bottom line is I checked with leaf spy and the screen shot attached...the soh is 85. I paid 拢8500 for this, and am debating taking it back on mis selling but problem is a really like this particular car for everything else.

So I am asking, is this soh reasonable, am I to expect it to plummet and have I been ripped off. It is 11bars now and only done 11000miles 馃お

Any help greatly appreciated!

Thanks
 

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2012 24kw upgraded to 40kw
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Firstly, welcome to the SpeakEV forum, and the joys of EV motoring.

Nextly, a couple of questions. Is it a 24 or 30kWh ? Also, take a screenshot using Leafspy of the BMS software versions - there are different versions, some of which affect the reported SoH. Other forum members/posts will detail the current version (i'm not sure...).

The car has covered 11k miles (2 rapid charges) and 305 regular charges - which means it averaged 37 miles between charges. So, quite possibly left fully charged much of the time - but can't be sure of this (it's a guess). The SoH isn't wildly bad for its age (?), and another thing to keep in mind is how far it's driven recently (ie the past month or two) - and how cold it is right now. If it's been stuck on a forecourt not driving, and it's cold, both of those will slightly reduce the reported SoH, and it'll go up a few percent when you start driving regularly and it warms up a bit.

The other thing you can try is rapid charging, and perhaps 'drive it like you nicked it'. I've seen some suggestions that this can raise SoH a bit.

The dealer stating that it had 12 bars, and it actually having 11 could be described as mis-selling. Also, most 2015s won't still have 12 bars, and those that do probably won't retain all 12 for that much longer ?

Finally, perhaps the most important thing is - how far do you need to drive on one charge ? If your commute/regular journey is within whatever 'comfortable' range of the car is, then all is tickety-boo.
 

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15 months ago I bought a 2016 Leaf with 22,000km and about 86% SOH (so still 12 bar). Clearly lightly used during its early life in Japan. Lat check (last month) at 40,000km LeafSpy said nearly 88% SOH, so the reported SOH has risen with regular use.

Seems to me that mid-80's SOH is normal for a decent 5~7 year old Leaf24 (given what I see advertised in NZ), so most are on the 11/12 bar boundary. My single sample point is that regular use (I'm typically running 80% SOC to 40% SOC daily) doesn't result in significant further loss.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks so much guys! Really helpful. It's a 24kwh and Im hoping it will reach commute goals....it does now and am hoping it still does in the winter 馃馃馃
 

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Good luck! I've been delighted so far, I get my basic 42km (hilly) round trip on 30% of the battery in summer and on less than 50% on a cold winter day here (Dunedin isn't quite as cold as I remember Yorkshire, the frost melts reliably during the morning). So I have plenty of headroom for making side trips, charging to 80% rather than 100%, and for future battery degradation.Biggest surprise (for me) has been how nice a car the Leaf is, I was expecting cheap to run and eco-friendly but not the good low speed performance and decent ride/handling.
 

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Welcome.

First off... Don't panic!

I bought a 15 plate leaf 24 in November 2017 with 13300miles (so the car was 2.5 years old, against the 6 that yours now is), and once I got leafspy on it I was disappointed to find that the SoH was at 88.4%, so 85% at 6 years old(or close to) is nothing wildly out of whack.

The bit that will (hopefully) make you feel a bit more assured is that I kept the car for 19 months, drove it 12200 miles and the absolute lowest SoH that I ever saw was 87.99%.

It does not necessarily follow that your SoH means that the car was left at 100% all the time. Your leafspy graph shows a collection of cells that are out of balance with the rest, and so a balance charge to 100% for a couple of hours (keep it connected and "charging" even once it has reached that in order to let it balance the cells). If the car has not been charged up to 100% in some time then it could be that lack of balance which is reducing the SoH.

Also, your car has almost never rapid charged. A few rapid charges in a row, lifting the temperature up toward the top of the range (8-10 temperature bars) can boost the SoH by several %. After a 225mile day that included 6 rapid charges our 88% car was up to 93% SoH, and it declined back to its "natural" level over the next couple of months.

With the 88% SoH, our leaf was 50-90mile range - 50 in mid winter poor weather conditions at 70, 90 miles in mid summer, 56mph behind a lorry with no AC. 85% SoH will take maybe a mile or two off those figures.

If you treat it like I did (30-80% range typically, charged to 100% only about 5 times over the time I had it) then it should be fine.
 

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Nissan LEAF30
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I agree with the above, 85% is not bad for a 6 year old LEAF and the car will remain very usable at that level for years to come.
Whilst a fan of LEAFSpy I council taking it's use in context, and the voltages at a high SoC are significantly less useful than at a low SoC due to battery balancing. To find battery issues run the car past VLBW (very low battery warning - 10% on a LEAF24) and then take the readings. This is the key point and shows the effective capacity as one or more weak cells will prevent you accessing the charge in the others.
To me 拢8.5k is a lot to pay for a '15 LEAF24 and close to the entry point of a LEAF30 - admittedly a lower spec or higher mileage. The LEAF30 would still have some battery warranty left and significantly greater range. If it were me I'd look at getting out of the deal. Good luck.
 

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Nissan Leaf 24 Tekna '64 reg
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Welcome to SpeakEV and EV ownership.

Over my 3+ years of ownership, car currently at 6.5 years old, '64 reg. I estimate SoH drops 3% a year. So 15% degradation for 6 years car is about right, on the better side. For your reference, my Leaf lost its first bar at 5 years old, late summer as SoH dipped below 85%. You'll find SoH dips in summer and rises slightly in winter. Reason is that it isn't an definitive value, it's an estimate by the battery management system (BMS).

End of the day, as long as the range of the car is usable to your needs, the battery SoH doesn't matter. SoH is only useful to gauge possible faults within the battery. Considering it is in line with other cars, there isn't a fault.
 

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The battery degradation doesn't seem to be out of line with average really it's down to budget and how the car is going to be used. That sort of range would be fine for us and we would get many years out of it before it became an issue.

I looked at a 16 plate 24kwh Leaf with 24k miles the dealer hadn't advertised it was at 11 bars and given the price difference was 拢1500 I went for the bigger battery and a car with 12 bars (currently)

Not particularly helpful if already purchased but another poster mentioned pricing. I just paid 拢10k for a 16 plate 30kwh Tekna with 19,000 miles one owner from a Nissan Dealer with full Nissan service history. It was supplied by the dealer and always serviced there.

It's got the remainder of the 8 year battery warranty and 12 months Nissan warranty on the car, 12 months MOT they also put 2 new tyres on it and new Nissan mats. I also got what I thought was a generous trade in. I had been looking for ages and it was an 80 mile round trip to look at it and then go and collect but no issue for me.

Bottom line as the previous poster said 拢8500 seems like top end for a 15 plate car with 11 bars.

If you read some of the threads on here (Leafy Chris in particular) it certainly makes me think that buying one of these used at this sort of age it really needs to come from a big dealer network to maximise your comeback if any issue with the battery.

I think you have 14 days in which you can reject a car good luck whatever you decide !
 

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Hi guys,

Just bought a brilliant (I thought) leaf from a local second hand dealer. Asked all the reg questions including how many bars on the dash for the battery....he said 12.

As this was click and collect I went and got the car....and as I was driving back I noticed it was only 11bars. Only then did find out about these forums and leaf spy etc. Anyway, the bottom line is I checked with leaf spy and the screen shot attached...the soh is 85. I paid 拢8500 for this, and am debating taking it back on mis selling but problem is a really like this particular car for everything else.

So I am asking, is this soh reasonable, am I to expect it to plummet and have I been ripped off. It is 11bars now and only done 11000miles 馃お

Any help greatly appreciated!

Thanks
The first bar is lost at 85% - so the car was exactly on the threshold where it would drop from 12 to 11 bars, so there is nothing shady on the part of the seller IMHO.

The actual drop from 12 to 11 bars on the dashboard once the car drops to 85% is a bit unpredictable - it needs to be at or below 85% for a certain length of time, (days, weeks, months, nobody really knows) and the SoH figure can fluctuate up and down a bit on a weekly basis anyway, so it could very well have been showing 12 bars last time they checked.

Unfortunately the bars on the dashboard are a very coarse method of measuring the SoH of the battery.
 

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GOLF GTE PHEV
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Unfortunately the bars on the dashboard are a very coarse method of measuring the SoH of the battery.
There doesn't seem to be any definitive method to calculate the SOH of a Li-Ion battery from what my research turned up.
More useful might be monitoring how quickly it drops. A sudden drop should give cause for concern.
 

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Nissan Leaf 24 Tekna '64 reg
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There doesn't seem to be any definitive method to calculate the SOH of a Li-Ion battery from what my research turned up.
The way to do it is to run it pretty much empty (low drain at low SoC), charge up to full (slowly near the top), repeat it a few times and measure total energy you can get out of it. When the total energy you can get out of the battery pack each time remains identical, you can trust this value.
SoH = energy you get out of battery / original available capacity

That is also known as calibrating BMS, essentially using the battery to the extremes so the BMS will know the extremes.

But you are right during normal use (you wouldn't drive it below 10% often), no, there is no definitive method to calculate SoH accurately. The BMS can only guesstimate.
 

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I bought my 2017 30kwh in summer of 2019. It had 42k miles and ~91soh. Initially the Soh actually went up with use, reached as high as 93%.

It's now just shy of 60k, and has reached 80% SOH.

Oddly it didn't drop it's first bar until the SOH got below 82%. It spend 3-4 months under 85% before the bar went.

Tbh the rate of deg is slightly concerning, over 10% loss in a year and a half... and the range is bloody awful these days.
 

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Nissan LEAF30
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Yes, as above from Simon (@DBMandrake ) - there's no 100% accurate way of measuring SoH and in my experience the LEAF30's measurement drifts away from where you want it if the battery isn't balanced regularly. Looking at the cell voltages on LEAFSpy this appears to be due to balance issues rather than weak cells (they recover their imbalance when balance charged repeatedly).
Nissan removed the charge to 80% software limit with the LEAF30, I suspect for this very reason. Why the software limit didn't include balancing at the 80% limit I don't know - it would seem the ideal combination prolonging the life of the battery and keeping the cells and their measurements in line.
 
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