[omarakabbal]

Hello,
I am new to this forum and wasn't sure where to post, so I just posted here .
I am currently writing my bachelor thesis on hybrid electric vehicles (HEV) where I am creating a database on hybrid vehicles available today. And I wondering if anyone on this forum had any information concerning battery specifications in hybrid vehicles. I am mainly focusing on parameters on the pack, module and cell level.
Here is a list of all the parameters if anyone is interested:

• Pack level: Capacity (Net/Gross), Configuration of the module, battery manufacturer, Number of cells, Type of assembly, BMS configuration, Size (Length, Width, Depth), Weight, Voltage, Power, Current, if the vehicle has auxiliary heating/cooling.
• Module level: Size of the module (length, width, depth), Weight, Capacity of the module (Net/Gross), Configuration of the cell, Voltage, Current, Power, Type of assembly on the module level, the cost of the module, Slave BMS(yes/no)
• Cell level: the capacity of the cell (Net/Gross), Size (length, width, depth), Cell type, Manufacturer, Chemistry (Type of Chemistry, Specific Chemistry), C-rates, Temperature of the cells when the measurements are made, Voltage (Nominal, upper, lower), Current (Lower, higher), Energy density, Power density, Connection type, the Cost of each cell

Some the parameters in the database can be calculated if other parameters are given, I just mentioned all of them so you can get the picture of how the data base will look like.

Any information given will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Spiny]

Any particular reason why your flogging a dead horse? MHEV and HEV are going the way of the dodo IMO as these are not electric cars and they no longer dodge VED, just using a bit of technology to boost the MPG on the WLTP, The PHEV may be around for a bit longer as it at least has some electric range.

 

[omarakabbal]

I agree with you, MHEV and HEV are close to useless at this point as battery prices have gone down and companies such as Tesla and Nissan have managed to produce EVs with long ranges at an affordable price.
However,the goal of my thesis is to investigate potential uses of second hand hybrid electric vehicles batteries. As batteries in hybrid and EVs are not used after the battery capacity decreases to 80-70%. My part in this project is to create a database of all the available hybrid vehicles(HEV, MHEV,PHEV) batteries and evaluate which one is best for second hand use.

 

[Spiny]

That makes more sense
My PHEV is now probably 8 years old from the factory with no visible signs of degradation of the portion available to use (10.4 out of an actual 16.7 kWh). These cars seem to long lasting and so far are not being scrapped for battery ageing.
GM Volt / Ampera uses lithium manganese oxide (LiMn2O4) pouch cells made by LG Chemical, these are liquid cooled and heated to give longevity.


To see what goes on inside a Volt Battery

 

[DangerousDoug]

If, during your degree, you worked out a way to re-cycle the raw materials of "used up" Lithium Ion Polimer batteries into new batteries, you'd be very rich, very famous and very welcome on this forum!

 

[BabyEVDriver]

Hello,
I am new to this forum and wasn't sure where to post, so I just posted here .
I am currently writing my bachelor thesis on hybrid electric vehicles (HEV) where I am creating a database on hybrid vehicles available today. And I wondering if anyone on this forum had any information concerning battery specifications in hybrid vehicles. I am mainly focusing on parameters on the pack, module and cell level.
Here is a list of all the parameters if anyone is interested:

• Pack level: Capacity (Net/Gross), Configuration of the module, battery manufacturer, Number of cells, Type of assembly, BMS configuration, Size (Length, Width, Depth), Weight, Voltage, Power, Current, if the vehicle has auxiliary heating/cooling.
• Module level: Size of the module (length, width, depth), Weight, Capacity of the module (Net/Gross), Configuration of the cell, Voltage, Current, Power, Type of assembly on the module level, the cost of the module, Slave BMS(yes/no)
• Cell level: the capacity of the cell (Net/Gross), Size (length, width, depth), Cell type, Manufacturer, Chemistry (Type of Chemistry, Specific Chemistry), C-rates, Temperature of the cells when the measurements are made, Voltage (Nominal, upper, lower), Current (Lower, higher), Energy density, Power density, Connection type, the Cost of each cell

Some the parameters in the database can be calculated if other parameters are given, I just mentioned all of them so you can get the picture of how the data base will look like.

Any information given will be greatly appreciated.

Wait what? You can earn a bachelors degree by creating an excel database of hybrid car batteries?

I thought it was supposed to be a major price of work?

 

[mikegs]

creating an excel database

Excel is a spreadsheet, not a database

 

[omarakabbal]

Wait what? You can earn a bachelors degree by creating an excel database of hybrid car batteries?

I thought it was supposed to be a major price of work?

Well no, it's only a small part of my thesis. I am creating a database on MySQL of all the specs mentioned above. Then I am going to use this data to find the best possible battery for second use. Using those batteries cells I am going to create a battery storage that will work as a powerwall to store electricity from solar panels.

 

[omarakabbal]

If, during your degree, you worked out a way to re-cycle the raw materials of "used up" Lithium Ion Polimer batteries into new batteries, you'd be very rich, very famous and very welcome on this forum!

Haha . Well, we are at least trying to prove in concept that it is possible to use second hand hybrid vehicle batteries (energy dense battery packs)

 

[Spiny]

The term Hybrid on the forum means cars with tiny battery packs like the Prius (a 1.3kWh NiMh pack), a similar NiMh pack is in the Lexus. The 48 volt MHEV packs are probably useless for anything - including driving the cars! The Mild Hybrid Evoke is rated at 200Wh (0.2kWh) so little more then a torch battery for example, you would need a serious quantity to do anything like a powerwall

PHEV's have larger packs from the 4.4kWh Prius Plug (Lithium-ion) upwards, the BMW225xe these days has a 10kWh lithium unit.
Actually if you want a powerwall then why not get an old leaf and nail it on the side of the house, Should work fine.

 

[omarakabbal]

The term Hybrid on the forum means cars with tiny battery packs like the Prius (a 1.3kWh NiMh pack), a similar NiMh pack is in the Lexus. The 48 volt MHEV packs are probably useless for anything - including driving the cars! The Mild Hybrid Evoke is rated at 200Wh (0.2kWh) so little more then a torch battery for example, you would need a serious quantity to do anything like a powerwall

PHEV's have larger packs from the 4.4kWh Prius Plug (Lithium-ion) upwards, the BMW225xe these days has a 10kWh lithium unit.
Actually if you want a powerwall then why not get an old leaf and nail it on the side of the house, Should work fine.

Yes that makes sense..That will naturally be the must important parameter. But it would also be helpful to have data on all the other parameter in order to make an accurate evaluation.
When I say hybrids I mean all the three types (HEVs, MHEVs and PHEVs).
I am also making a database because this is something that has not been done. Both consumers and potential manufactures could benefit from such a database. At the end of the project we will publish the database on a domain which will be available for everybody to see. The database will also contain data on EVs but I am only responsible for the hybrid part.

 

[HandyAndy]

If you're trying to use original specs to make use of old cells, you're up against a tough nut. Your database may well say "use quantity X of cell type Y for application Z"; you then source these, build your battery pack, only to find it's almost useless. These Li-ion cells are typically 4V ish, so get stacked in series to create a useful voltage. Start trying to mix a set of nominally identical cells originating from different EVs, and they will have had different histories and be unevenly worn out. Any BMS trying to balance them will take an inordinately long time doing so, and will waste a lot of energy doing so. Probably best to let the original Car mfrs do this task, as they may be the only guys actually knowing what precise chemistry was used in what cell. VW, Renault and no doubt others are already doing this.

 

[omarakabbal]

If you're trying to use original specs to make use of old cells, you're up against a tough nut. Your database may well say "use quantity X of cell type Y for application Z"; you then source these, build your battery pack, only to find it's almost useless. These Li-ion cells are typically 4V ish, so get stacked in series to create a useful voltage. Start trying to mix a set of nominally identical cells originating from different EVs, and they will have had different histories and be unevenly worn out. Any BMS trying to balance them will take an inordinately long time doing so, and will waste a lot of energy doing so. Probably best to let the original Car mfrs do this task, as they may be the only guys actually knowing what precise chemistry was used in what cell. VW, Renault and no doubt others are already doing this.

Well, we will be using new cells. Using old cells will be too complicated for a bachelor thesis, and given that I have limited time and resources. The data from the database would be used to rank the batteries and see which one could potentially be used for second-hand use.

 

[Vertigo]

These are the records for hybrids in my spreadsheet. Some cases might be giving usable energy rather than total energy.

Sources:

 

[omarakabbal]

These are the records for hybrids in my spreadsheet. Some cases might be giving usable energy rather than total energy.

View attachment 127060

Sources:

View attachment 127061

Thank you for sharing your spreadsheet