Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
2012 24kw upgraded to 40kw
Joined
·
214 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I thought I’d share my experience of upgrading a 1st Gen (24kW, Japan built) 2012 Leaf with a 40kW battery. I found it quite difficult to get the information about this and hope that this thread might provide some pointers, not a comprehensive guide, to battery swapping. The information I’ve found came mainly from Dala (the Very Great), CleeveleyEV (David), Google, and forum members.

I’ve owned this jalopy for two years and it’s used for my wife’s commute and general pottering about the central belt of Scotland; we have a pretty modest annual mileage. It’s our only car, and we’ve rented an ICE when needing to do longer journeys (200 mile upwards). I was hoping that by upgrading to a 40kw battery, I’d have the range to do longer trips around Scotland and Northern England.

This Leaf was previously owned by Perth council from new, and I got it with 16k miles and 11 bars. The battery health was about mid-80s I think, and my guess was that the fleet had been kept by someone that knew a bit about battery health (eg charged to 80% mainly – if it had been sat with a full battery from 2012-2019 I suspect it’d have been a bit less healthy). I decided to upgrade when the SoH was at 78.8% (10 bars on dash, but expecting to lose one), and my range was about 50 miles if careful (at indicated 60mph). This isn't really that bad for a 9 year old Leaf, but i was thinking 'wouldn't it be great if it went further between charges'. We buy any car offered 5k for it, so I’d guess a value of 5.5-6k.

To upgrade I looked into the DIY option after viewing both Dalas and Cleeveley’s youtube clips of how it’s done. I wasn’t able to find a 40kw battery which have been in scarce supply. However, Cleeveley had one and I went with them - £8.5k. They use the Muxsan CAN bridge – but if you’re going DIY then either EVs Enhanced or Ingenext offer CAN bridges/battery pairing. The swap for my Leaf went smoothly, and I’m now loving the range though have yet to see the furthest i can go on a single charge. The 40kw battery has 94.75% SoH and holds about 35-36kw on a full charge (Leafspy, so far). It’s currently pretty cold up here, these number may go up a little once it’s summer* (*note, summer in Scotland…maybe double digits in celsius).

Old battery; David (at Cleeveley) said that I could keep the old battery, or that they could store it for 4 weeks while I sold it. I put it on Ebay, and it sold for 1650 (a Li ion battery trader indicated it was probably worth about 1800). So, my battery upgrade cost about 7k. Whether this is a worthwhile investment for my 9 year old car is very subjective – some may feel it would be better to trade in a get a newer 30kw (and warranty etc). I decided that I’d prefer to keep my low-mileage older car (with the thirsty heater) – which now goes further than a 30kw, but isn’t as new or expensive as a 2nd gen 40kw Leaf (which i’m not keen on). I’ve notified my insurance company (Churchill) and they said the new battery wouldn’t change the premium. Of course, if the car was crashed/written off I doubt they’d pay for the new battery. But, I suspect I’d buy the wreck and put the 40kw into another Leaf. In the longer term, I suspect one of my kids will inherit this car and we’d hope to keep it going for quite a few years.

Overall, i can say that there has been rejuvenation of the ‘smug grin’ associated with EV driving, and much less squeaky-bum when it comes to range anxiety. Is it worth doing ? That depends upon your priorities, but i think it was the right call for me.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,478 Posts
Great stuff. How many regen dots do you get when it’s fully charged? And have you done any rapid charging? Make me jealous with a shot of your range estimate :)

mine is down to 7bars so only 30 miles range in winter. I bet yours is 130 or more?
 

·
Registered
2012 24kw upgraded to 40kw
Joined
·
214 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Great stuff. How many regen dots do you get when it’s fully charged? And have you done any rapid charging? Make me jealous with a shot of your range estimate :)

mine is down to 7bars so only 30 miles range in winter. I bet yours is 130 or more?
I noticed that i get all the dots during regen - but previously didn't. Not paid attention to any difference when fully charged vs less (but i thought there should be little or no regen at full charge ?).

Have done one short rapid so far, it seemed to fill waaaaay faster than my 24kw. I think it may have the 'rapidgate' issue if trying to do 3+ rapids in succession. But, i suspect that'd be almost difficult to achieve without falling into the sea if driving around Scotland (it'd mean having driven 240+ miles - and more than the capacity of my arse to sit still). Plus, it doesn't get as warm to start with, so i'm not expecting high battery temperature problems.

The GoM has read 194 miles - exuberant over-enthusiasm, but i'm wondering whether it might go over 200 at some point in warmer weather.

I'm also hoping that the 94.75% SoH declines slowly, if i look after it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Interested to read this. My 2014 24kwh is still good with 11 bars, and I also don't like the appearance of the newer cars but need more range long term.
I'm considering having Cleeveley's 17.6kw range extender in the boot at some point possibly followed up by a 40 (or 62kw??) swap later on if I still like the car in a few years time!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
2012 24kw upgraded to 40kw
Joined
·
214 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Interested to read this. My 2014 24kwh is still good with 11 bars, and I also don't like the appearance of the newer cars but need more range long term.
I'm considering having Cleeveley's 17.6kw range extender in the boot at some point possibly followed up by a 40 (or 62kw??) swap later on if I still like the car in a few years time!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
In your situation, i think i'd go for the bigger battery upgrade - it's simply neater to have a 40kw in place of the 24 (and i think less complex BMS). Subsequently, you could then add a range extender if you felt the need. Interestingly, i see that Cleeveley have a 62kW battery upgrade option - though it's quite expensive as i'd guess these packs are rare. I suspect that 40kW upgrades will become cheaper and more common over the next few years.

I hope that more 24kWs get battery swaps - it's a sensible way to keep cars in use for longer. If it's possible for EVs to have double the life/miles of an ICE, that's a 50% savings in the carbon used for production (where about 50% of the carbon cost of cars lies, and assuming that we don't double production). I'll stop there; before i'm overcome with quasi-green virtue signalling... :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
I thought I’d share my experience of upgrading a 1st Gen (24kW, Japan built) 2012 Leaf with a 40kW battery. I found it quite difficult to get the information about this and hope that this thread might provide some pointers, not a comprehensive guide, to battery swapping. The information I’ve found came mainly from Dala (the Very Great), CleeveleyEV (David), Google, and forum members.

I’ve owned this jalopy for two years and it’s used for my wife’s commute and general pottering about the central belt of Scotland; we have a pretty modest annual mileage. It’s our only car, and we’ve rented an ICE when needing to do longer journeys (200 mile upwards). I was hoping that by upgrading to a 40kw battery, I’d have the range to do longer trips around Scotland and Northern England.

This Leaf was previously owned by Perth council from new, and I got it with 16k miles and 11 bars. The battery health was about mid-80s I think, and my guess was that the fleet had been kept by someone that knew a bit about battery health (eg charged to 80% mainly – if it had been sat with a full battery from 2012-2019 I suspect it’d have been a bit less healthy). I decided to upgrade when the SoH was at 78.8% (10 bars on dash, but expecting to lose one), and my range was about 50 miles if careful (at indicated 60mph). This isn't really that bad for a 9 year old Leaf, but i was thinking 'wouldn't it be great if it went further between charges'. We buy any car offered 5k for it, so I’d guess a value of 5.5-6k.

To upgrade I looked into the DIY option after viewing both Dalas and Cleeveley’s youtube clips of how it’s done. I wasn’t able to find a 40kw battery which have been in scarce supply. However, Cleeveley had one and I went with them - £8.5k. They use the Muxsan CAN bridge – but if you’re going DIY then either EVs Enhanced or Ingenext offer CAN bridges/battery pairing. The swap for my Leaf went smoothly, and I’m now loving the range though have yet to see the furthest i can go on a single charge. The 40kw battery has 94.75% SoH and holds about 35-36kw on a full charge (Leafspy, so far). It’s currently pretty cold up here, these number may go up a little once it’s summer* (*note, summer in Scotland…maybe double digits in celsius).

Old battery; David (at Cleeveley) said that I could keep the old battery, or that they could store it for 4 weeks while I sold it. I put it on Ebay, and it sold for 1650 (a Li ion battery trader indicated it was probably worth about 1800). So, my battery upgrade cost about 7k. Whether this is a worthwhile investment for my 9 year old car is very subjective – some may feel it would be better to trade in a get a newer 30kw (and warranty etc). I decided that I’d prefer to keep my low-mileage older car (with the thirsty heater) – which now goes further than a 30kw, but isn’t as new or expensive as a 2nd gen 40kw Leaf (which i’m not keen on). I’ve notified my insurance company (Churchill) and they said the new battery wouldn’t change the premium. Of course, if the car was crashed/written off I doubt they’d pay for the new battery. But, I suspect I’d buy the wreck and put the 40kw into another Leaf. In the longer term, I suspect one of my kids will inherit this car and we’d hope to keep it going for quite a few years.

Overall, i can say that there has been rejuvenation of the ‘smug grin’ associated with EV driving, and much less squeaky-bum when it comes to range anxiety. Is it worth doing ? That depends upon your priorities, but i think it was the right call for me.
This is definitely something I will consider once (if ever) we get out of the current situation! I'm just wondering what effect if any it had on your insurance premium given this is a "modification" and I know from personal experience this can cause some Insurers to have a meltdown!
 

·
Registered
2012 24kw upgraded to 40kw
Joined
·
214 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
This is definitely something I will consider once (if ever) we get out of the current situation! I'm just wondering what effect if any it had on your insurance premium given this is a "modification" and I know from personal experience this can cause some Insurers to have a meltdown!
I spoke to my insurer (Churchill) - who confirmed with the underwriter that there was no change in the cost or cover. They modified my details to reflect the change. Things to note; it's a Nissan original part/battery that's been fitted (albeit to the 'wrong' model), it leads to no change in performance (the car is not faster, but it is 30kg heavier, and the handling is unchanged). The car now goes further between charges; will this affect annual mileage, that's user-dependent. You need to keep in mind that the CAN bridge that has been fitted is non-OEM. Could this be a problem at some point ? Maybe. I'm comfortable with this level of risk...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
169 Posts
I thought I’d share my experience of upgrading a 1st Gen (24kW, Japan built) 2012 Leaf with a 40kW battery. I found it quite difficult to get the information about this and hope that this thread might provide some pointers, not a comprehensive guide, to battery swapping. The information I’ve found came mainly from Dala (the Very Great), CleeveleyEV (David), Google, and forum members.

Hi and thanks for the post. So you end up paying CleeveleyEV for swap, not DIYing ? 8k is very expensive. I saw packs for around 6k on eBay, but the problem I have with DIYing it, I can't find a lift rental in Scotland to do it (i can't do it on a driveway as it is quite sloped). I think technically you don't even need a cam-bridge, you can use leafspy to get the actual SOC of the battery. Battery pairing is also easy and cheap now.
 

·
Registered
2012 24kw upgraded to 40kw
Joined
·
214 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hi and thanks for the post. So you end up paying CleeveleyEV for swap, not DIYing ? 8k is very expensive. I saw packs for around 6k on eBay, but the problem I have with DIYing it, I can't find a lift rental in Scotland to do it (i can't do it on a driveway as it is quite sloped). I think technically you don't even need a cam-bridge, you can use leafspy to get the actual SOC of the battery. Battery pairing is also easy and cheap now.
Yep, i went with Cleeveley though did consider DIY. I was going to 'Heath Robinson' something together the lower the battery - a wooden pallet with some extra 2x4s and either a pair of trolley jacks or a pallet lifter/fork (what could possibly go wrong... !). I thought a 40kWh was around 6k Euros, and did see one for £5k with 500 shipping from a UK based seller (a wrecker on eBay).
You could ask Electron Garage in Glenrothes ? I'm surprised to hear that pairing is cheap - i thought that only EVs enhanced offered a tool; and when i communicated with them they told me their tool didn't work on first-Gens with a 40kWh (strange, i thought?). When i heard that Dala has experience with the Muxsan (what Cleeveley fit), i became more keen on this option. At some point, there may be opportunity to do some messing about - Dala is certainly improving it step by step.
 

·
Registered
2011 Leaf with Muxsan 17.6kWh battery, curt tow hitch fitted for bikes or buzz rack P10
Joined
·
309 Posts
i recently went with adrian flux and underwritten by axa this was because my previous insurer was doing as your churchill is which is to say not insuring the mod and the extra liability. Apparently my muxsan 17.6kwh is now covered at £5000 value as well as the car so worth maybe giving them a call.

Also if yours is a gen 1 you might consider fitting an ac heater. at some point your ptc heater will most likely pack in. by using an ac one in the same loop you may be able to achieve two things. 1) save capacity on that long trip by preheat off the mains. 2) take some of the heavy duty lifting by preheating with the ac one before swapping over to the onboard oem one.

Im also going to install a diesel heater on mine dw3z as my ptc has died a second time but i have board a 2kw lf bros heater to augment the heating so i can use a little paraffin as possible.
 

·
Registered
2012 24kw upgraded to 40kw
Joined
·
214 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
i recently went with adrian flux and underwritten by axa this was because my previous insurer was doing as your churchill is which is to say not insuring the mod and the extra liability. Apparently my muxsan 17.6kwh is now covered at £5000 value as well as the car so worth maybe giving them a call.

Also if yours is a gen 1 you might consider fitting an ac heater. at some point your ptc heater will most likely pack in. by using an ac one in the same loop you may be able to achieve two things. 1) save capacity on that long trip by preheat off the mains. 2) take some of the heavy duty lifting by preheating with the ac one before swapping over to the onboard oem one.

Im also going to install a diesel heater on mine dw3z as my ptc has died a second time but i have board a 2kw lf bros heater to augment the heating so i can use a little paraffin as possible.
Thanks - i didn't realise that it might be an option to get the upgraded pack covered. TBH, i was working with the assumption that if my car was written off, i'd buy the wreck and put the pack in another old Leaf (i'm really loving the range, and the old style Leaf). If i could find an old Leaf in decent nick (and cheap) and a reasonably priced 40kWh pack, i'd do an upgrade myself, just to have another one; for my kids.

Heater; i moved back to Scotland after 6 years in Montreal, Canada. So far, i rarely use the heater in the car (which is usually garaged overnight in the winter), as it's 'really not that cold'. A down jacket seems enough to remain toasty and preserve range, though with a 40kWh battery i can see that i'll go soft on using the PTC heater until it packs up. The car had covered 16k miles when i bought it, so i'm hoping that the heater may have a few years left. I do like the notion of using a diesel or paraffin heater - old school ! Will have to see when my PTC gives up, and whether the cold is really bad enough to get me off my arse to do something about it... :)
 

·
Registered
2011 Leaf with Muxsan 17.6kWh battery, curt tow hitch fitted for bikes or buzz rack P10
Joined
·
309 Posts
yes well all that stuff is waiting in a box, bench tested it and the heater works great (in fact they both do) one thing I am musing over is whether I need to make a bypass loop for the AC one which has its own pump as I don't know whether the Bosch one in the car will allow water to be pulled through it by another one. To be fair these could be entirely manual ones, id just have to remember to do it (open and close valves) as part of the preheat routine. (id much rather an automatic solution which would bypass the pump on connecting the ac heater to the mains). As for the diesel one which is similar form factor to the one I will replace but I will leave the electric on where it is an place the dw3z behind the 12v which some heat shielding. well the pump will still run despite the oem heater being toast so I just have to remember to turn on the diesel and then turn on the cars heating to circulate and run the fans. I don't think I will have any temp control as it really is just shorting the alternator wire to positive 12v and off to let it go back to turning off safely and not bricking the dw3z's brain. (which will happen is it is disconnected from the battery directly without going through its shut down enough times).

Anyway some time in the future if I find a cheap enough replacement original heater out of a low mileage car from a warm country I might consider replacing the original but it is a bit crap efficiency wise. Also Emile at Muxsan was telling me that there were some heatpump aftermarket solutions he was looking into too not sure whether they are market ready yet or at the prototype stage.
 

·
Registered
2012 24kw upgraded to 40kw
Joined
·
214 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·

·
Registered
2012 24kw upgraded to 40kw
Joined
·
214 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
An update on range after 40kWh upgrade; i'm finding that i can now do 100mile journeys (motorway at indicated 60-65mph) and get home with 3 or 4 bars on the dash and a GOM reading of 35-50 miles. These have been wet and under 10C. Thus, i'm thinking i could get another 20 miles comfortably and possibly 40 if being careful. I'm thinking about blanking the front air-intake and getting the wheel inserts 3D printed/fitted. Together, these might up the range by 5+% (potential for 8 miles gain - maybe an adequate buffer on a 130 mile trip, depending upon rapid charger locations). Currently, the only thing that's a bit of a pain is that the bars on the dash don't behave entirely normally if a charge doesn't go to completion. Upon plugging in, they go to full regardless of how much charge has gone in. This is also the case when i rapid charge. It's a PITA which i hope may be resolved at some point if/when there's an update to the Muxsan CAN bridge (or perhaps Dala will fix it). At present, i can use Leafspy to see battery charge but am thinking about alternatives that are a bit simpler (eg finding a LeafDD or similar, or the more whizzy package that monitors everything). Overall, still very much liking it :) though my enthusiasm has landed me with a presentation on EV ownership to my workplace. Sigh.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top