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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all, had our 2017 Outlander since September and noticed a big hike in electricity bills.

Interested in comments on my maths!

2 charges per day (normal mains 13A) 13.8Kwh x 2 = 27.6 Kwh ax 15p per Kwh (Octopus energy) Costs £4.14 per day.

For that, we get about 30 miles range. A gallon of petrol is about £4.90 which would get me over 30 miles.

What are we saving?

Regards

Vin
 

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Nissan LEAF30
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Hi all, had our 2017 Outlander since September and noticed a big hike in electricity bills.

Interested in comments on my maths!

2 charges per day (normal mains 13A) 13.8Kwh x 2 = 27.6 Kwh ax 15p per Kwh (Octopus energy) Costs £4.14 per day.

For that, we get about 30 miles range. A gallon of petrol is about £4.90 which would get me over 30 miles.

What are we saving?

Regards

Vin
Welcome to the forum, if you aren't just trolling. ;) :unsure:

How are you only getting 1-1.5 mile/kWh on electric driving - that is very lead footed? I suspect that your assumption of 13.8kWh to charge the batterry figure is much higher than the battery is receiving as it only has a usable 9kWh - what are you basing it on? If you use the full 9kWh available at 15p/kWh (which seems high) and assuming your price of £4.90 for petrol that is 54mpg equivalent.
 

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If you want to really save money, you would be getting better efficiency in a full EV and not carrying around an engine and fuel tank. The hybrids will never give you efficiency as good as an EV, though as dk6780 said above me, you should definitely be getting more than 1 Mile per kWh.

Switch to off peak energy tariffs and charge at night when it is cheapest. You can do better than 15p per kWh.

Getting a dedicated home charger will also increase the efficiency of charging, allow you to cram more power into the battery at this off peak period, and prepare you for full EV charging should you choose to make that switch at a later date too.
 

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VW Passat GTE
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How does 2 charges only get you 30 miles? You should be getting more like 30 miles per charge, unless you only drive up hill, tow buses all day or drive it like you stole it. Something doesn't seem right with your electric range. What figures did you assume when working out whether a PHEV would be right for you?

For comparison, here's the maths for my VW:

Over the last month, I've averaged 3.0 miles/kWh with a ~10kWh usable battery capacity (actual battery is 13kWh), so have an average 30 mile range per charge. A full charge takes something closer to 11kWh from the wall box, so at 4.7p/kWh, a full charge costs 51.7p. Average cost per mile from electric is 51.7p / 30miles = 1.72p/mile

Petrol engine is rated to 44mpg when the battery is flat. Using your £4.90 per gallon figure, cost per mile from petrol is 490/44 = 11.13p/mile. For comparison, I need to get 284mpg on the petrol engine to match 1.72p/mile that I get on electric.

There's the saving that I get. On your energy tariff, my electric cost per mile would be more like 5.5p/mile (equivalent cost per mile to 89mpg). Still a decent saving compared to petrol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Welcome to the forum, if you aren't just trolling. ;) :unsure:

How are you only getting 1-1.5 mile/kWh on electric driving - that is very lead footed? I suspect that your assumption of 13.8kWh to charge the batterry figure is much higher than the battery is receiving as it only has a usable 9kWh - what are you basing it on? If you use the full 9kWh available at 15p/kWh (which seems high) and assuming your price of £4.90 for petrol that is 54mpg equivalent.
Thanks dk

I appreciate any help and I'm certainly not trolling. Really trying to find out if this is worth it. It's my wife's car so I only drive it occasionally. My maths was flawed. I guessed the 13.8 kwh by how much my electricity use has gone up since owning the car. My car shows an average of 2 miles per kWh. And if you change my numbers for 9 kWh per charge then for 15 miles I'm getting about 1.7 miles per kWh. My cost per kWh is 15.46p, I need to reduce that! I also need to work out what the power draw is to charge the battery. Our driving is very sedate (playing the battery game) we use ECO/ B5 all the time and live in a relatively hilly area (uphill into town and downhill home. Do other owners get more than 15 miles on a 3-year-old battery?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
If you want to really save money, you would be getting better efficiency in a full EV and not carrying around an engine and fuel tank. The hybrids will never give you efficiency as good as an EV, though as dk6780 said above me, you should definitely be getting more than 1 Mile per kWh.

Switch to off peak energy tariffs and charge at night when it is cheapest. You can do better than 15p per kWh.

Getting a dedicated home charger will also increase the efficiency of charging, allow you to cram more power into the battery at this off peak period, and prepare you for full EV charging should you choose to make that switch at a later date too.
Thanks, the Hybrid made sense on paper, my wife does several short journeys per day, I thought I would get 30 miles per charge. But we would then have the Petrol for longer journeys, (we live in north Scotland) so limited charging options. AS my reply to DK, it's maybe not as bad as I first thought but open to ideas to reduce costs, I'll look into a dedicated charger but need to work out outlay cost vs savings. Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
How does 2 charges only get you 30 miles? You should be getting more like 30 miles per charge, unless you only drive up hill, tow buses all day or drive it like you stole it. Something doesn't seem right with your electric range. What figures did you assume when working out whether a PHEV would be right for you?

For comparison, here's the maths for my VW:

Over the last month, I've averaged 3.0 miles/kWh with a ~10kWh usable battery capacity (actual battery is 13kWh), so have an average 30 mile range per charge. A full charge takes something closer to 11kWh from the wall box, so at 4.7p/kWh, a full charge costs 51.7p. Average cost per mile from electric is 51.7p / 30miles = 1.72p/mile

Petrol engine is rated to 44mpg when the battery is flat. Using your £4.90 per gallon figure, cost per mile from petrol is 490/44 = 11.13p/mile. For comparison, I need to get 284mpg on the petrol engine to match 1.72p/mile that I get on electric.

There's the saving that I get. On your energy tariff, my electric cost per mile would be more like 5.5p/mile (equivalent cost per mile to 89mpg). Still a decent saving compared to petrol.
We drive very sedate ECO / B5 but have some hills. Not sure why only get 15 per charge, that's what I'm trying to work out. Seems you do considerably better than me. I bought the car thinking we would get 30 miles per charge. Cheers
 

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I guessed the 13.8 kwh by how much my electricity use has gone up since owning the car.
Was that for both charges, or each one? The "granny" charger only uses 10 Amps so about 2.3kW which would be about 6 hours charging.
if you change my numbers for 9 kWh per charge then for 15 miles I'm getting about 1.7 miles per kWh
So it appears that your HV battery has got a reduced capacity if the car say 2.0 miles/kWh as that implies 7.5kWh for 15 miles.

I'm not an expert on Outlander PHEVs, hopefully someone like @richi with more knowledge will add his thoughts.
 

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Is it possible that your bills have gone up because world events have lead to you spending more time at home?....
I'm not saying it is, but its also possible that the bills might be based on estimates rather than actual readings, or that previous bills were low estimates and you are now paying the difference.
The most expensive devices in the home to run on electricity involve heat, look into items or usage that may explain the increase, for example, if you have an immersion heater that you only use infrequently, has that been turned on and left on, have you had a bathroom redone and installed underfloor heating, have you become fans of bakeoff and have the oven on a lot more than previously, do you have secret drug hydroponics drug farm in your basement or attic, or does your neighbour and have they tapped into your supply ;-) that kind of thing.

Look hard enough and you'll find the real cause.

We installed LED lighting throughout the house at the same time as we got our first Leaf and my bills went down not up!
 

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We have an outlander gx4hs and its my wife's car as well she does a normal round trip to her sisters of 53kms about 32 miles and she comes back with energy in the battery 🔋 pack. The range at the start was nowhere near that but after I explained about not having the heater or ac on but put on the heated seat and steering wheel instead, she gets there and back on battery this journey also involves a good chunk of motorway.
So at 97 % electric driving and a night rate electricity of €0.09 per kilowatt its a bargain
 

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Is it possible that your bills have gone up because world events have lead to you spending more time at home?....
I'm not saying it is, but its also possible that the bills might be based on estimates rather than actual readings, or that previous bills were low estimates and you are now paying the difference.
The most expensive devices in the home to run on electricity involve heat, look into items or usage that may explain the increase, for example, if you have an immersion heater that you only use infrequently, has that been turned on and left on, have you had a bathroom redone and installed underfloor heating, have you become fans of bakeoff and have the oven on a lot more than previously, do you have secret drug hydroponics drug farm in your basement or attic, or does your neighbour and have they tapped into your supply ;-) that kind of thing.

Look hard enough and you'll find the real cause.

We installed LED lighting throughout the house at the same time as we got our first Leaf and my bills went down not up!
Yeah always worthwhile doing a complete energy audit in the house. Log everything plugged in, bulbs, appliances etc into a spreadsheet. Just like with finances there are pretty much always savings to be made. Cheers
 

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I guessed the 13.8 kwh by how much my electricity use has gone up since owning the car. My car shows an average of 2 miles per kWh.
Might be worth doing an experimental drive. Fully charge the battery, go for a normal drive, run it flat, and check your consumption average and distance traveled. That should let you guess at what your usable battery capacity is. Probably worth doing it a few times just to be sure. Whether you get something closer to 9kWh or 7.5kWH would point the finger at whether there might be an issue with your electricity usage guess or the car's battery. It is also worth checking the wording of your car's traction battery warranty, it might give you an idea of what level of degradation over time is acceptable.
Coasting is more efficient than regen, so it might be worth trying a lower B setting. Some people also say that ECO mode in a car is less fuel efficient (e.g. people start flooring the accelerator to make up for the dulled response). I find that it works for me, but only because I adapt my driving style to suit it.
 

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A basic technique with a PHEV is to set off on every trip with a full battery from the cheapest mains tariff available and arrive back with the battery empty. And to do that even if there are a few trips a day. During each trip if regen is taken make sure to use that gained power before arriving back home even if it means selecting electric drive only for the last mile or so.
 

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Hi all, had our 2017 Outlander since September and noticed a big hike in electricity bills.

Interested in comments on my maths!

2 charges per day (normal mains 13A) 13.8Kwh x 2 = 27.6 Kwh ax 15p per Kwh (Octopus energy) Costs £4.14 per day.

For that, we get about 30 miles range. A gallon of petrol is about £4.90 which would get me over 30 miles.

What are we saving?

Regards

Vin
In the last month I have covered 293 miles to date it has cost £4.93,like you we are with Octopus, but charge up at night @ 5 pence a kW, using between 9.1 to 9.6kW about 50 pence a charge.

Given that you are covering 600 miles per 4 week month you EV cost should be nearer £10.00
 

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Thanks dk

I appreciate any help and I'm certainly not trolling. Really trying to find out if this is worth it. It's my wife's car so I only drive it occasionally. My maths was flawed. I guessed the 13.8 kwh by how much my electricity use has gone up since owning the car. My car shows an average of 2 miles per kWh. And if you change my numbers for 9 kWh per charge then for 15 miles I'm getting about 1.7 miles per kWh. My cost per kWh is 15.46p, I need to reduce that! I also need to work out what the power draw is to charge the battery. Our driving is very sedate (playing the battery game) we use ECO/ B5 all the time and live in a relatively hilly area (uphill into town and downhill home. Do other owners get more than 15 miles on a 3-year-old battery?
Vin, I sold my 2017 Outlander earlier in the year. At this time of year, trying to avoid the heater, heated seat instead, steady driving with some motorway, I could expect to drive about 20 miles on a charge. Maybe get your battery health tested? You asked about price comparison between petrol and electric. I always found electric driving to be about one third of the cost, an approximation that still holds broadly true with an EV when I compare my Leaf with my wife's Juke.
 

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Thanks, the Hybrid made sense on paper, my wife does several short journeys per day, I thought I would get 30 miles per charge. But we would then have the Petrol for longer journeys, (we live in north Scotland) so limited charging options. AS my reply to DK, it's maybe not as bad as I first thought but open to ideas to reduce costs, I'll look into a dedicated charger but need to work out outlay cost vs savings. Cheers
It's the several short journeys per day that is the killer (in the colder months). I would bet most of that energy stored in the battery is being converted to heat for the heater rather than forward motion. Even a full EV will also have cr*p efficiency on very short trips with the heater on.

On the GTE my missus can quite easily only get 10 miles of EV range in the colder months.
 

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Suggest you use the Charge Cost feature in the MMCS or SDA to see how much energy you actually use for a full charge. Average it over a few charges.

This will not only tell you what number to plug into your calculation, but also give you a hint as to your car's estimate of battery health—see Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV FAQ section A for more details on that, and on how to encourage the car to revise its estimate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Is it possible that your bills have gone up because world events have lead to you spending more time at home?....
I'm not saying it is, but its also possible that the bills might be based on estimates rather than actual readings, or that previous bills were low estimates and you are now paying the difference.
The most expensive devices in the home to run on electricity involve heat, look into items or usage that may explain the increase, for example, if you have an immersion heater that you only use infrequently, has that been turned on and left on, have you had a bathroom redone and installed underfloor heating, have you become fans of bakeoff and have the oven on a lot more than previously, do you have secret drug hydroponics drug farm in your basement or attic, or does your neighbour and have they tapped into your supply ;-) that kind of thing.

Look hard enough and you'll find the real cause.

We installed LED lighting throughout the house at the same time as we got our first Leaf and my bills went down not up!
Thanks Hairy, I have just returned from living overseas so yes the bills are higher than I expected, however, the big leap came when I got the PHEV. Two teenagers and lockdown don't help. I've just finished swapping all of the halogen lights to LED, hopefully, that will help, not sure about the hydroponics though...;-)
 

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Thanks Hairy, I have just returned from living overseas so yes the bills are higher than I expected, however, the big leap came when I got the PHEV. Two teenagers and lockdown don't help. I've just finished swapping all of the halogen lights to LED, hopefully, that will help, not sure about the hydroponics though...;-)
Yeah, just converted four expensive crystal lights that had scary numbers of halogen bulbs to LED. On paper, the drop in wattage is staggering so fingers crossed. Also been making many lights smart, in various way e.g. Sonoff, Phillips Hue, BG Electrical, Shelly which makes it easy to turn stuff of remotely if left on when out etc. Just need to install Hive heating as the current heating controls, though new, are unfathomable [utter sh1t] to use...
 
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