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Discussion Starter #1
Just about to get my EV delivered so am going to review my electricity tariff.
Anyone know of some amazing deals out there or the best place to look?
I was thinking of going for a Smart meter put the tariffs seem quite expensive.
Best I have found with a quick search is first utility at 11.79 kwh and 17.22 per day fixed till Aug 2015
 

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Driving yet another EV!
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It really depends where you are, and what you are looking for. Ecotricity do a discounted tariff for EV owners, it is 100% green energy but it still works out slightly more expensive than the "big 6" when you take into account all the discounts you can get from the bigger players (direct debit, paperless billing etc.)
 

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I'm also interested to hear options and opinions re: economy 7, or smart meter vs. standard web/discounted tariffs.

I currently pay only 11.09p per kWh ex VAT so despite running some numbers I haven't been able to make a case for smart meter tariffs or economy 7 since we're gas central heating and the house is occupied during the day. Being generous, the car is only going to need say 40% charge overnight - say 9kWh. IIRC I might save 4p per kWh or 36p per day, yet pay an extra 5p per kWh in the day where I estimate usage of 12 kWh, a loss of 24p per day.

I'll watch things closely on our energy monitoring system and try to fit a separate coil on the EVSE feed to monitor car charge power but it looks as though there is no benefit whatsoever in our circumstances. Even if washing machine & dishwasher run overnight the best we might hope for is breakeven. Solar pv seems to be the answer - maybe economy 7 type tariffs then pay benefits, though I guess a smart meter would take away flat rate 50% export payments, and I plan to export much less...
 

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@Phillip Smith For me the main factor was not price. For me the main factor was that all my electricity came from 100% renewable sources and if you want that then you are pretty much restricted to Good Energy or Ecotricity.

I went for the Ecotricity Econ 7 with the Car Tariff. It may cost a little more than special deals with the big 6 but I could never bring myself to go with the big 6 given their general lack of support for renewables.
 

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what exactly is the standing charge for ?
It is supposed to cover all the fixed costs , i.e. the ones that don't change depending on how much you use.

For example it covers the cost of billing you, reading your meter, manning the phones, having someone available to repair a fault at midnight on Christmas eve in the middle of a force 10 storm etc.
 

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@Phillip SmithI could never bring myself to go with the big 6 given their general lack of support for renewables.
Ecotricity have 61.5MW of installed wind capacity in the UK - around 0.6% of the 11GW total. Who do you think has the other 99.4%?

The majority of the remainder is split across "traditional" energy companies. The largest Wind generator in the UK is DONG.
 

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Ecotricity have 61.5MW of installed wind capacity in the UK - around 0.6% of the 11GW total. Who do you think has the other 99.4%?

The majority of the remainder is split across "traditional" energy companies. The largest Wind generator in the UK is DONG.
That is my point... it goes elsewhere and is split up so when you buy from the big 6 you get a mix of renewable and non-renewable but with a heavy bias towards non-renewable. With Ecotricity and Good Energy you know all your power is from renewables.

In any case... it can only generate 61.5MW if the wind is blowing hard enough everywhere in the UK to have all turbines running at max output and that just never happens so that figure is misleading if you take it as real capacity... it is theoretical capacity at full generation.
 

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There is the onshore / offshore debate to be had re investment and maintenance costs for wind.....

But as I understand the Ecotricity offer I am a customer of:

1.) If yiu are grid connected your actual energy will come from the nearest available generating source...for me this may well be the soon to be got rid of due to the e u Buildwas coal power station.

2.) Ecotricity tell you that all the PROFIT they make from your custom will go into NEWLY BUILT renewable generation

Historically there has been a kind of token system where a utility could buy a chunk of the EXISTING renewable generation to fulfill your purchase of "green" electricity. This system may not advance the amount of renewable capacity. The Ecotricity offer, in theory, will. Bills into mills as they say...

Ecotricity have 61.5MW of installed wind capacity in the UK - around 0.6% of the 11GW total. Who do you think has the other 99.4%?

The majority of the remainder is split across "traditional" energy companies. The largest Wind generator in the UK is DONG.
 

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Actually electricity works very much like money in a bank. My boss pays a few thousand pounds each month into his bank and I take exactly the same number of pounds out of mine. The money I take out is not physically the same money as he put in, but I am still happy that my boss "paid me" that money. There is no such thing as a separable kWh of electricity that flows from a particular power station to your house - the power station increases the total energy available in the grid and you decrease it, but it is meaningless to try and figure out where the energy you are extracting comes from. You might as well ask which part of a huge rock is the bit that makes it too heavy for you to be able to pick up - you could pick up half of it, but that doesn't mean that it is the other half that is the thing that stops you picking it up.
 

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There is the onshore / offshore debate to be had re investment and maintenance costs for wind.....

But as I understand the Ecotricity offer I am a customer of:

1.) If yiu are grid connected your actual energy will come from the nearest available generating source...for me this may well be the soon to be got rid of due to the e u Buildwas coal power station.

2.) Ecotricity tell you that all the PROFIT they make from your custom will go into NEWLY BUILT renewable generation

Historically there has been a kind of token system where a utility could buy a chunk of the EXISTING renewable generation to fulfill your purchase of "green" electricity. This system may not advance the amount of renewable capacity. The Ecotricity offer, in theory, will. Bills into mills as they say...
1) Indeed, that's true for all 27.8 million UK customers (domestic and non).

2) That's how all existing energy companies are building renewables. The new companies raise finance however they do it, but if they have no sales then it's not via profit, Obvs.

The ROCs system was indeed the mechanism by which all the UK wind sprung up, but 2.5GW of capacity was added in 2013 alone. That's an awful lot of new capacity for "a system that may not advance renewable capacity". Ecotricity have built about 10MW since 2008, and looking at this data on their own website also shows that most of their capacity was added before then. As it happens the ROCs system isn't great for small entrants to bat off investment risk (entry costs are high) and (for this and other reasons) the system is being replaced by Contracts for Difference (CfDs - assuming the EU doesn't call it State Aid) and Feed-In Tariffs (FiTs), under Electricity Market Reform (EMR). TMA, frankly.

As for Single gen source tariffs - Ofgem's Retail Market Review (RMR.....bang.....thump) has put paid to many of those for now at least because "source of generation" is not one of the subdivisions mandated by Ofgem. All suppliers get 4 tariffs per fuel (Elec or Gas) meter type (register config, basically - single, double, multi etc.), payment method (credit, Pre-Payment). Given that renewable tariffs are still pretty niche large suppliers won't be taking up a slot needed by one of four other propositions with wider volume appeal - *currently*. This limitation has been noted in consultations, and coupled with the lack of mass market (but growing, of course) demand for renewable tariffs, has left that part of the market to the newer and smaller entrants able to guarantee single source more easily because they don't have multi-source standard/fixed tariffs to crowbar into their slots as well. If the RMR rules change, as well they might once "Simpler, Clearer, Fairer" has been addressed to Ofgem's satisfaction, then we may see things hot up in the wind tariff space.
 

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Thanks Mark, great to have your expertise in the debate...really interesting.

Have been wanting to be a customer of Ecotricity since before they accepted their first domestic customer so followed them closely through the years.

Am aware that they have had a lot more onshore wind planned than they have achieved due to the resistance within the UK to allow planning permission easily ... or quickly. Some have taken many years. The UK approach to renewables recently described as BANANA - Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone - as well as NIMBY - by the retiring head of the European Renewable Energies Federation.

http://www.thisweekinenergy.tv/

This feels important to me because Ecotricity have argued for Onshore wind against Offshore. If I have understood it right Offshore wind is a lot easier in some ways to get planning permission for than Onshore. And the big growth last year in UK wind came from offshore. As a customer I want to be supporting onshore wind - can go through why if wanted.

Perhaps because of this Ecotricity have started building new solar and bio gas generation too.

Ultimately it comes down to who you believe or trust re the commitment to increasing the share of uk electricity. Personally I have more confidence my custom will further this with Ecotricity then with others.

The bio gas injected into the grid from Ecotricity helps me feel better about having both bills with them and the discount that gets.

For new customers they have always promised to match the prices of your local supplier. Recently they have been saying their prices are held just under. Not looked into this as not a priority for me.
 

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Actually electricity works very much like money in a bank. My boss pays a few thousand pounds each month into his bank and I take exactly the same number of pounds out of mine. The money I take out is not physically the same money as he put in, but I am still happy that my boss "paid me" that money. There is no such thing as a separable kWh of electricity that flows from a particular power station to your house - the power station increases the total energy available in the grid and you decrease it, but it is meaningless to try and figure out where the energy you are extracting comes from. You might as well ask which part of a huge rock is the bit that makes it too heavy for you to be able to pick up - you could pick up half of it, but that doesn't mean that it is the other half that is the thing that stops you picking it up.
There is one difference Matt...the electricity actually exists! Whereas money is literally lent into existence :) . And very little of the money we put into the bank is actually there at any one time. Whereas all or most of the energy put into the grid is there.

I did think that the electricity comes to meet your need from the nearest available source. But basically I think we are agreeing....there is no direct link between the company you pay for your electricity, and the electricity you use.
 

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Hey Phillip, I bet this isn't really what you expected when you started this thread? (interesting though)

Here are the details of my tariff : https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3829/13762542273_a2fffc0f7a_o.png

I'm pretty happy with that night unit rate (which is when I do 95% of my charging). Saying that, I didn't really know about Ecotricity when I sorted the deal but I've been impressed with what they're doing so when my fixed period expires next year I expect I'll switch over to them.
 

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I signed up with Extra Energy on Friday; I'm paying 9.26p/unit with a daily standing charge of 21.19p. I generally charge my car during the day using PV power, so the cheap night tariffs aren't much use to me.

For me, the fact that Extra Energy isn't one of the "big six" is attractive. I was even more pleased to switch when I learned that Scottish Power (my previous supplier) is owned by British Gas which, I've learned through watching Robert Llwellyn's "Fully Charged" videos, is a major investor in fracking (boo).

Glenn
 
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