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Discussion Starter #1
Am I the only one who's actually a bit bored with EVs in the UK now - there's just too many things getting in the way of buying one to replace a really good PHEV, and although there's been plenty of new releases, not one of them (apart from the Model 3) is in any way exciting - and they're all either too expensive, or really inefficient, or crap range, or just weird. Or all three/four. And yet look at the chinese market - loads of really good looking futuristic EVs with big batteries, and small prices. Why ???
 

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I know what you mean. I've been watching the market for a while waiting to jump in but there's nothing that quite fits the bill, I want at least 40 or 50 miles of electric range for day to day driving but the ability to do long distance trips of 200 to 300 miles every few week at a competitive price.

The current crop of PHEVs have pretty small batteries and limited electric range, yet carry a hefty premium to the point that it's questionable whether they're worth the extra cost, compared to a regular hybrid they're probably not.

As you say, there's very capable EVs now like the M3, the 64kwh Kona and Niro but the prices are still far to high to make financial sense. There's reasonably priced 50kwh models like the Corsa and Zoe emerging, which make long distances viable but they're small city cars. The 40kwh models still seem marginal for long distances when you read the reports of real world range experience.

There's a few models which could be interesting over the next year - the MG HS Phev with a 16kwh battery which makes the electric range worthwhile, the MG5 with a 55-60kwh battery in an estate body, or the Mazdz MX30 with a REx.
 

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Decided that the Model Y will be my next BEV. Its been difficult to justify moving from the 41kWh Zoe. The Zoe has certainly been one of the best 'bang for buck' EVs on the market, so I need the next car to offer a lot to justify the switch.

Performance, technology, space, utility, range, charging infrastructure...to me the Model Y is almost the EV that does it all. The looks have even grown on me since the first announcement too.

I'm driving enough miles now to justify a more expensive car too! Hoping the Zoe maintains its extremely good residual value in the next 12/18months, as I should have just about enough saved by the time it's released. Might even put my name down on as a pre-order!
 

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Decided that the Model Y will be my next BEV. Its been difficult to justify moving from the 41kWh Zoe. The Zoe has certainly been one of the best 'bang for buck' EVs on the market, so I need the next car to offer a lot to justify the switch.

Performance, technology, space, utility, range, charging infrastructure...to me the Model Y is almost the EV that does it all. The looks have even grown on me since the first announcement too.

I'm driving enough miles now to justify a more expensive car too! Hoping the Zoe maintains its extremely good residual value in the next 12/18months, as I should have just about enough saved by the time it's released. Might even put my name down on as a pre-order!
You might be in for a long wait. I hear that European (and UK) Model Y's will only be made at Tesla's Giga Berlin, construction of which has just been paused again due to soil issues.

Construction Of Tesla Gigafactory 4 Reportedly Postponed
 

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There's reasonably priced 50kwh models like the Corsa and Zoe emerging, which make long distances viable but they're small city cars.
Since when has the Corsa and other vehicles of that size been small city cars? They are B segment Superminis and are still used by many families as their principal vehicle. They are used to travel all over the country and are quite at home on motorways.
 
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Since when has the Corsa and other vehicles of that size been small city cars? They are B segment Superminis and are still used by many families as their principal vehicle. They are used to travel all over the country and are quite at home on motorways.
You wouldn't buy one to regularly travel long distances on the motorway in it. Most families tend to run that size as second cars, the primary vehicle is normally the next size up - a Focus, Astra, A3, something a little bit bigger.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Since when has the Corsa and other vehicles of that size been small city cars? They are B segment Superminis and are still used by many families as their principal vehicle. They are used to travel all over the country and are quite at home on motorways.
And unfortunately they're still boring, ugly and rubbish range for the price - which is still incredibly expensive, no matter what excuses people can conjure up.
 

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Why not? Sure, if you need to transport you and three Rugby players long distances to matches it will be tight. But that's not the normal family unit, let alone the 1.2 people in most cars during the week.
Post the current crisis we'll all be at least one size car down from previously. So expect this to be the new normal.
 

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Why not? Sure, if you need to transport you and three Rugby players long distances to matches it will be tight. But that's not the normal family unit, let alone the 1.2 people in most cars during the week.
Post the current crisis we'll all be at least one size car down from previously. So expect this to be the new normal.
This has been the pattern of car development over many decades. Any successful model gets improved and updated (= enlarged) until it becomes functionally the next largest model.

VW Golf and Polo are examples. The Mk1 Golf was about the size of the current Polo. Similarly the Ford Focus and Fiesta.

So the affordable small family car has a name change. Its stability etc have also grown up with it.

As for being a second car, that is fine if you can afford two.
 

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Decided that the Model Y will be my next BEV.
If it had been available last year I'd certainly have been interested in it.
If I ever replace my Kona when the warranty expires I might yet have one ... heck, they might even be available in the UK by then :unsure:
 

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Speaking as one of those rugby players, I did appreciate some room, but it always amuses me when car reviewers test supermini as to whether you can get three adults in the back.

By and large the only people who are cramming three abreast in the back of Corsas are teenagers, and they're not driving brand new e-Corsas.
 

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Why not? Sure, if you need to transport you and three Rugby players long distances to matches it will be tight.
How about women and girl footballers, within my county?:) I occasionally used to do the same over bigger distances when I lived and played regional level footie in Italy after the financial crisis meant the team couldn't afford to travel by coach. Also backwards and forwards from Italy to the UK in an old Fiesta, Fabia and latterly a Hyundai i20, invariably loaded heavily (with wine not bodies!).

I take a functional view of cars and this idea that they aren't "exciting" leaves me unimpressed. No doubt being sat in traffic on the M25 is better in a more comfortable car, and larger distances are made easier, but never assume other people share your view on what is an appropriate vehicle. I know some people get a lot of pleasure from what car they have but it's not a universal view.

It's why I sometimes worry about the "city" car idea and the reduced range that often goes with it. Many of us are happy with a smaller car, but in a single car household it's got to do everything so a half way decent range and fast charging would still be necessary.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
in reality, even "half way" decent range isn't good enough. I'm beginning to wonder what the hell all the other manufacturers are doing in their car design labs.
 

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And unfortunately they're still boring, ugly and rubbish range for the price - which is still incredibly expensive, no matter what excuses people can conjure up.
IMHO you are rather letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. I don’t think the Corsa or Zoe are as you described. Neither of the those two cars are ugly, in fact the Corsa is rather an attractive car, as is its close relative the Peugeot e-208. I don’t think the Corsa or Zoe can be fairly called city cars either. Unfortunately there isn’t really a clear definition of what a city car is, but I tend to think of a city car as a very small car (say under 3.6m long) with limited boot space and a range under 80 miles, such as as a Smart EQ fortwo or IMiev/C-Zero/Ion.

I haven’t had the chance to look at an e-Corsa in real-life yet, but it seems to be bigger than the old school Corsas. I once swore I’d never buy a Corsa as they were too small. I remember having one as a courtesy car in the late 90’s and you couldn’t change gear without touching the passengers knee unintentionally. But apart from the gear changing issue having gone away with an EV, I notice the e-Corsa is now nearly the same size as an Astra. So I would seriously consider it as a future EV.

The range of both e-Corsa and Zoe 50 is pretty good too. Of course most EVs are still too expensive, but that won’t change until mass production really ramps up. Sadly that is looking to be delayed by current events. However, taking the Corsa as an example, it will do about 200 miles for about the same starting price as a 30 kWh Nissan Leaf when they were new, but that Leaf had half the range. That’s a massive increase in value for money.

I’m not sure what you consider decent range, but I think the 200+ mile range of the e-Corsa, Zoe 50 or Leaf 60 should be enough for most people. I have found that even a 30 kWh Leaf will do perfectly well as a main car and is capable of long trips, touring holidays of Scotland etc (back when that was possible). I think we need to realise that we generally don’t need as much range as we think we do and it is not humanly possible (or safe) to drive 300 miles in one go anyway and we will need to stop at least once, so you may as well be charging you car during that break rather than insist on a car with a massive expensive battery that will do 300+ miles on one charge. Of course batteries will get better and cheaper over time, but what we have now is perfectly adequate (in terms of functionality, if not quite in price). Of course any discussion of range is somewhat academic at the moment as almost any EV will have all the range needed for the foreseeable. :(
 

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A City Car or A segment car is defined here.

A Supermini or B segment car is defined here.
 
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It seems there are no objective standards for car classes, as stated in the Wikipedia B-Segment article :

“The European segments are not based on size or weight criteria. In practice, B-segment cars have been described as having a length of approximately 4 metres (13 ft).”

So, based on your link the e-Corsa and Zoe are both B segment cars as they are both over 4m long.

According to the link below, city cars or mini cars are A segment. Therefore e-Corsa and Zoe are definitely not city cars.

Car Classification
 

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We have had at least 1 Zoe since 2014. A few weeks ago, our neighbours eldest son queried my use of a Zoe as business transport. I answered the usual questions, 6 years late, then he said can I have a ride in it? Of course I obliged.

His first comment upon closing the passenger door? Wow, this has loads of space! He turns around, and in the back too! I told him its a very clever design, but for those who judge the worth of a car based on perceived exterior dimensions, with bigger being better, it won't tick boxes. He remained silent. For the record, he is 6 foot 2 and big built!
 

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Small, medium, large - it all depends upon your perspective. A neighbour collects old minis and I used to own one many moons ago; now, that’s a small car! A “new” Mini is actually quite big. It’s just that many people consider an enormous SUV to be the norm. I traded down from a BMW X5 to an i3 but after two years I consider it to be perfectly big enough and for most people it would be absolutely fine as a family car.
 
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