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I'll check mine tomorrow (if it's not raining :cool:)
Well, in spite of the rain I gave it my best shot but, so far without success. I think that I can see the relevant sticker but can't manoeuvre my phone under the wheel arch sufficiently to get a photo, at least, not without getting drenched and muddy from the wheel!. I'll give it a go when the weather gets a bit better.
 

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After confirming the two different motor P/Ns and that I had the older 710 I decided to go ahead and try my luck with the dealer to get their opinion. Technician immediately heard the sound and acknowledged that it was louder and more pronounced than the other EV vehicles he had driven. We also got a key to a brand new (mfg 09/2019, ~20ish miles on the ODO) and took it for a drive -- the sound was much much quieter, yet still there. I confirmed that the test drive vehicle also had a 710 motor, even though it was 1 month later production lot. Dealer agreed to look into it with Kia America given the sound is much louder than the new vehicle, which is all I can expect at this point.
 

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the sound was much much quieter, yet still there.
The clicking sound on a brand new car? Is that at very slow speeds? I'm fairly sure I didn't have any clicking at slow speeds when the cars was new.

I would have expected them to be fitting the new motor by now. To carry on with the old design when they have a more robust option shows their attitude towards quality and customer care.
 

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The clicking sound on a brand new car? Is that at very slow speeds? I'm fairly sure I didn't have any clicking at slow speeds when the cars was new.

I would have expected them to be fitting the new motor by now. To carry on with the old design when they have a more robust option shows their attitude towards quality and customer care.
Yes, low speeds. My guess is they all do but it takes a trained ear and only once you know what to listen for is it detectable. You know most people are not complaining and they just think its normal, or if the sound grows gradually then they may think it was always like that. Its part of their first EV experience so they are none the wiser. With only 300-400 sold in the USA its unlikely more than a few have reported this, so a pattern has yet to emerge until volumes increase. Only “the clicky wheels” will get any potential remedy (i hope).
 

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I wonder if they have knocked the wheel out of balance during the wheel rotation?
 

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Got my car back three days ago after it went in for treatment for the "noise". I cannot believe how quiet it is now - it just shows how you can used to annoying noises. The dealer had to send a recording of the noise and oil from the reduction gearbox for analysis to Kia who decided it was a gearbox issue and not the motor - so they have replaced the gearbox and not the motor. I am now listening very carefully for any sign of the noise returning but so far it is definitely fixed - originally started around 800km.. The next 1000km will be interesting !!!
Photo of the motor details shows it as a 710 version. ( HMC P / N 36500-0E710 EM16K1A557CJ )
124750
 

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Great timing, Kia dealer just called me too. They sent a recording to Kia and now they want to check the gearbox fluid. Maybe it will lead down the same path. Do you know what they were looking for in the oil that made them go to the next step? Metal shavings I assume. I am keen to know how well your fix lasts!
 

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Discussion Starter · #289 ·
Called the dealer yesterday,
New motor is on route from Kia
ETA is 9th December.


Sent using Tapatalk (I'm on my phone so sorry for any auto correct screwups)
 

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Great timing, Kia dealer just called me too. They sent a recording to Kia and now they want to check the gearbox fluid. Maybe it will lead down the same path. Do you know what they were looking for in the oil that made them go to the next step? Metal shavings I assume. I am keen to know how well your fix lasts!
Interesting that they are going down the same route with you but the dealer didn't know what the oil analysis revealed - I guess it has to be that they are looking for metal particles to confirm damage within the gearbox. I was expecting to have the motor replaced following the discussions on the forums but changing the gearbox has definitely fixed the problem at the moment, so it could be that they have two separate issues to deal with.
I am also very keen to know how long this will last - the original lasted for around 800km and I was hoping that this whole saga, that's been going on for 4 months now, was about to come to an end and I could just get on with using car without constantly listening for noises - that's going to be difficult now because there is also a potential motor issue that could appear at any time.
 

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Dropped vehicle off at dealer. Had a peek at the paperwork and the msg from Kia just asked “whats the ATF level and condition?”, didnt ask for a sample or specific chemical analysis. So metal = replace gearbox, no metal = replace motor? Im not sure what the decision logic is here.

Edit: update, fluid is full and clean. So now we wait for Kia’s response. No idea where this will lead them.
 

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Just FYI, the Kona is having the exact same problem. Very clear recording posted on the American forum. Like I posted over there, I find it strange that dealers are randomly replacing either gearbox or motor to fix the exact same problem. Makes me think that the problem isn't actually either part but the shaft that connects them and by swapping either part they are realigning or shifting the shaft which temporarily fixes the issue until it goes out again. Maybe the new motor revision just reinforces connection to gearbox so shaft stays aligned longer? If the noise really is damage inside the motor and gearbox then they really should be replacing both parts at the same time.

As to why KIA/Hyundai were still shipping the older motors as recently as September - probably to save money if they have a large inventory of them still sitting around. Most people buying an EV have never owned one before and have no idea that this noise is a defective drivetrain.
 

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I suspect the seemingly random parts replacements are due to need to show a some data and diagnosis logic before replacement of expensive parts. For example, metal found in gearbox leads to gearbox replacement only. If not, maybe next step is to further diagnose motor and come up with some weak justification for motor replacement, etc.... its cover-your-ass logic that leads down the various resolutions paths.
 

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Auto part Engine Vehicle Car Automotive engine part

Unfortunately I have the 710 motor (delivery September 19). Shame as I thought it's amazing so far. It only makes a high pitched squeaking noise when accelerating which is quiet but I can hear it which I thought was normal.
I've only done 1500miles. When did people start hearing the clicking?
 

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Unfortunately I have the 710 motor (delivery September 19). Shame as I thought it's amazing so far. It only makes a high pitched squeaking noise when accelerating which is quiet but I can hear it which I thought was normal.
I've only done 1500miles. When did people start hearing the clicking?
There is no guarantee that your car will ever develop the clicking problem with a 710 motor. We're just assuming that the 711 motor is less likely to develop the problem due to some preventive measures being taken by KIA on this revision. If you already own the older motor, I wouldn't worry about it until you actually hear the clicking demonstrated in many recordings posted online. For those still shopping for a Niro, you may want to check for the 711 revision in case it reduces the chances of this defect developing in the future.
 

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I suspect the seemingly random parts replacements are due to need to show a some data and diagnosis logic before replacement of expensive parts. For example, metal found in gearbox leads to gearbox replacement only. If not, maybe next step is to further diagnose motor and come up with some weak justification for motor replacement, etc.... its cover-your-ass logic that leads down the various resolutions paths.
I think you're right. For a $6000-$10000 repair including labor, I'm sure the dealers need to have hard evidence before KIA authorizes repair. But I still find it strange that some people have gotten clicking relief by swapping gearboxes while others have gotten the same result swapping motors. Are we to believe that both parts are failing after only a couple thousand miles? KIA and Hyundai engineers would have to be really incompetent if that's the case. Doesn't make any sense.
 

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I think you're right. For a $6000-$10000 repair including labor, I'm sure the dealers need to have hard evidence before KIA authorizes repair. But I still find it strange that some people have gotten clicking relief by swapping gearboxes while others have gotten the same result swapping motors. Are we do believe that both parts are failing after only a couple thousand miles? KIA and Hyundai engineers would have to be really incompetent if that's the case. Doesn't make any sense.
Agreed. We don’t have many datapoints to draw from. Perhaps its the alignment between the two and a tolerance change on either part usually addresses the issue, but not always. I’m speculating only.

One thing I find curious is reverse gear. I haven’t noticed any noise in reverse, which to me would mean its not a motor issue. Although I cant say I’ve done adequate amounts of testing this in reverse.
 

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Discussion Starter · #299 ·
Can't say I've noticed any noise in reverse either.

I wondered how the alignment worked with the rotation fix assuming the reduction gear was similar to a standard gearbox with 2 cogs on shafts. But the motor shaft goes into a splined socket. It could be that it then only makes the noise going forward as the teeth arent as worn out prone to slipping in the other direction?



Sent using Tapatalk (I'm on my phone so sorry for any auto correct screwups)
 

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My main worry is that even after I get my motor replaced with the 711 revision, my gearbox will also eventually fail like on the other cars with this noise. Then this whole ordeal and months of waiting for parts starts all over again. Wonder if there is a new gearbox revision as well?
 
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