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I'm going to buy an older iMiev/C-Zero/Ion or a Leaf in the £5000 to £7000 range. I thought I might ask If anyone has had experience with both, or has any thoughts about which would give the best value for money in that price range.

(Also posting this in the Leaf forum to see what responses I get on that side.)
 

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I paid just over £4K when my triplet was ~4-5 years old if that helps. Great for cheap motoring but very basic requiring frequent charging for my usage. Don’t have time to linger to 100%, typically charge to the 70%s as slower to charge than the Leaf especially in the cold. Range typically ~55 miles depending on conditions and driving style. A Leaf is a huge step up but all depends on your priorities. I know a couple of people with a leaf and a triplet, both have said the triplet is the best bang for buck if it’s to save as much as possible.
 

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The i-miev/clones are very fun but basic vehicles (bit rattly/boxy like a basic Ford KA), they were designed before the Leaf and range is more limited. As 2nd cars for town driving they are great, you dont need a home charge point as they are light vehicles with a relatively small battery so charging on a granny cable works fine and since the technology is basic they tend to be easier to fix (i've fixed charging issues on one and a chip failure on a circuit board in the battery pack on another).

Getting parts can be difficult but even failed cells in the battery pack can be replaced as they just bolt together. They keep going forever if you can find parts when needed. They don't have a heat pump, it is a resistive heater so that saps range and actually uses water (the "i" was a petrol car and they started a run of electric versions, hence these trade offs, you'd never make an electric resistive/water heating system)

No experience with the early Leaf.
 

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The i-miev/clones are very fun but basic vehicles (bit rattly/boxy like a basic Ford KA), they were designed before the Leaf and range is more limited. As 2nd cars for town driving they are great, you dont need a home charge point as they are light vehicles with a relatively small battery so charging on a granny cable works fine and since the technology is basic they tend to be easier to fix (i've fixed charging issues on one and a chip failure on a circuit board in the battery pack on another).

Getting parts can be difficult but even failed cells in the battery pack can be replaced as they just bolt together. They keep going forever if you can find parts when needed. They don't have a heat pump, it is a resistive heater so that saps range and actually uses water (the "i" was a petrol car and they started a run of electric versions, hence these trade offs, you'd never make an electric resistive/water heating system)

No experience with the early Leaf.
The i-miev/clones are very fun but basic vehicles (bit rattly/boxy like a basic Ford KA), they were designed before the Leaf and range is more limited. As 2nd cars for town driving they are great, you dont need a home charge point as they are light vehicles with a relatively small battery so charging on a granny cable works fine and since the technology is basic they tend to be easier to fix (i've fixed charging issues on one and a chip failure on a circuit board in the battery pack on another).

Getting parts can be difficult but even failed cells in the battery pack can be replaced as they just bolt together. They keep going forever if you can find parts when needed. They don't have a heat pump, it is a resistive heater so that saps range and actually uses water (the "i" was a petrol car and they started a run of electric versions, hence these trade offs, you'd never make an electric resistive/water heating system)

No experience with the early Leaf.
I'm going to buy an older iMiev/C-Zero/Ion or a Leaf in the £5000 to £7000 range. I thought I might ask If anyone has had experience with both, or has any thoughts about which would give the best value for money in that price range.

(Also posting this in the Leaf forum to see what responses I get on that side.)
Prices of the triplets have gone up over the last two years and when I last looked, we thought better to go newer with a guarantee than take a risk at £6k and six years old etc. Anyway, we bought our Ion about 4 months ago for £10.5K, but it was an October 2017 model, with just 450 miles on the clock and as new, so had over six years warranty on the battery. The dealer, Olympic Cars of Stroud, were v. good and we've been exceptionally happy with it. Bottom line is that I have kept my old Zafira for holidays and hauling big stuff for the family, but otherwise use only the Ion. It is for me like driving a modern 2CV so utterly basic but each time it makes me feel happy and pleased with life. Above all I love the simplicity of it all, and having today borrowed a brand new car with its flashing reminders of anything and everything and ridiculous driving aids, I immediately knew which I prefer. If you don't need a big range and are happy to plug in overnight, then it's a very straightforward choice. And if, like us, you have solar panels at home, it's an even cheaper choice as it draws only 8 amps with the granny cable, or 2.2 KW, so is ideal for free charging on a pleasant enough Saturday or Sunday. The only drawback is the clear lack of rustproofing - I bought two cans of Comma Wax Seal and spent a dirty morning underneath it spraying all the exposed metal - there's a lot, and it's so fiddly and complicated, if rust does set in then you wouldn't get an ordinary welder to make good again, so better protect it regularly, I think.
 

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Where roughly are you based? I'll most likely be selling a Peugeot Ion in a couple of months if you want to try it out, i'm in essex.

Cheers.
 

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Prices of the triplets have gone up over the last two years and when I last looked, we thought better to go newer with a guarantee than take a risk at £6k and six years old etc. Anyway, we bought our Ion about 4 months ago for £10.5K, but it was an October 2017 model, with just 450 miles on the clock and as new, so had over six years warranty on the battery. The dealer, Olympic Cars of Stroud, were v. good and we've been exceptionally happy with it. Bottom line is that I have kept my old Zafira for holidays and hauling big stuff for the family, but otherwise use only the Ion. It is for me like driving a modern 2CV so utterly basic but each time it makes me feel happy and pleased with life. Above all I love the simplicity of it all, and having today borrowed a brand new car with its flashing reminders of anything and everything and ridiculous driving aids, I immediately knew which I prefer. If you don't need a big range and are happy to plug in overnight, then it's a very straightforward choice. And if, like us, you have solar panels at home, it's an even cheaper choice as it draws only 8 amps with the granny cable, or 2.2 KW, so is ideal for free charging on a pleasant enough Saturday or Sunday. The only drawback is the clear lack of rustproofing - I bought two cans of Comma Wax Seal and spent a dirty morning underneath it spraying all the exposed metal - there's a lot, and it's so fiddly and complicated, if rust does set in then you wouldn't get an ordinary welder to make good again, so better protect it regularly, I think.
Batteries seem pretty bombproof so far. I like being able to scoot around for next to nothing and so far any minor repairs/servicing have cost peanuts. Mine mostly lives on major A roads and the countryside as I don't live in a city. Less chargepoints in the closest city anyway, lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I'm in Cambridgeshire, so Chelmsford would be close by to have a look. I'll PM you.

Thanks for the tips about waxing underneath etc.. A modern 2CV... that's right up my street.

How available are the parts? Where's a good place to get them if needed?
 

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Bought 2 2012 C Zeros in 2017 for a little under 5k each. Before getting the second one did look at a Leaf because the triplets are so rare. They seemed to be very high mileage and cheapest around 8k. Ended up buying another C Zero in Cambridge and driving it back here just south of Dublin.
Happy enough with the choice. It’s done my 40 mile daily commute ever since. The wife still drives around in the first one.
Cheap motoring used to do the commute in a Renault Master which used a bit of diesel. Now think it’s under a quid a day.
Interesting to see what they say on the Leaf forum.
 

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How available are the parts? Where's a good place to get them if needed?
What might be considered common parts might prove hard to get, but judging by posts on this forum, not a problem in reality. I'm thinking of things like shock absorbers, Aircon compressors etc
 

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Hi - I put my toe in the EV water last March with a 2012 iOn with 40k on the clock. Summer range high 70's to mid 80's; even in chilly, damp October the charge is kissing 80 miles. These Triplets seem to age well. They're a blast to drive - loved a previous comment about being like 2CV. Pure motoring fun .... but be prepared to wrap up well in winter. You may find Jonathan Porterfield's youtube channel helpful.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks Freddym, anyone else have the same or different experiences when it comes to parts availability?

@Viridis: That's interesting.. can I ask how much you paid?
 

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Also, I'm working on an estimated costs spreadsheet.

Can anyone tell me how much, in reality, they have had to spend on repairs and on servicing either in the last 12 months or 2 years? I want to work out how much I need to budget for.
 

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Hello , we've had our 2012 C zero for two years now , bought with about 10k on clock, now 25k ish . We bought it for 5k but I think would cost 6-7k now as prices have gone up / stabilised as people have gained confidence in the technology........ and latched on to lack of running costs.
In two years its more than half paid for itself just in fuel saving, just bought new tyres, nothing else, no service or repair costs as nothing to do. I'm a basic home mechanic so will do brakes etc when needed, but very little wear due to regen braking! Brakes and shocks etc all readily available and shared with other cars if you can cross reference.

If any of the major parts go wrong I know it could write the car off cost wise, same goes for a leaf or other electric/ high tech car . But conclusion is so far risk is reasonably small, reliability of the triplets is very good.
I am very aware they are not well protected from corrosion / salt on roads, rear brake pipes and all running gear, back sills arches very vulnerable, probably not spec'd for UK salt on roads, so would advice look out for one not too badly
effected to date and have it treated underneath. I did it myself last year .
We have a diesel for longer runs, use C zero for city , short runs and will keep it s long as we can , great fun to drive , Citroen CV analogy is perfect !, costs nothing to run, plenty of space inside , best car I've had .......
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Summer range high 70's to mid 80's; even in chilly, damp October the charge is kissing 80 miles.
70's - 80's?? Wow... Can I ask how that compares to the Ah reading in Canion? I'm assuming there's a fair correlation between the two.

Anyone else have that kind of mileage? I was under the impression the range was usually more like 55-60.
 

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Yeah 50-55 is the norm for me. I once scraped the low 70s hypermiling at 50 on a straight run in warm temps no heater etc. Trouble with that distance is you are so dependent on no wind bar a tail wind, wet, relentless uphills etc.
Great wee car I’ll hang onto for years.
 

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EV range is very dependant on driving style and speed - even more so with the i-miev because it’s a light car so gentle driving really increases the range and conversely as it’s not very aerodynamic when you drive fast it really kills the range.

Normal for me
45 miles range if you drive it like you stole it
50-60 miles from mixed fast/slow roads
70-80 miles if you drive round town all day or accelerate gently and do 55mph behind a lorry!

Cheers
 

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70's - 80's?? Wow... Can I ask how that compares to the Ah reading in Canion? I'm assuming there's a fair correlation between the two.

Anyone else have that kind of mileage? I was under the impression the range was usually more like 55-60.
70 to 80 miles seems wildly optimistic to me. I would suggest that that figure was based on believing the range reported by the GOM at a full charge, not by actually driving that distance without running out of charge... ;) Newsflash - sometimes the GOM lies at full charge - by a hillarious amount.

If the battery capacity is up around 40Ah (brand new no degradation is about 46Ah) then you're realistically looking at about 60-65 miles summer no heater, 40-45 miles winter with full heater. Those are combined figures from my daily commute with about half 30 mph, half 60mph motorway. If you just potter around town at 30mph you'll get a bit higher.

On a more degraded battery scale down appropriately. For example mine is now down to 33Ah and my summer range is now 55 miles and winter range about 37 miles!

Despite this my GOM still sometimes reports as high as high 70's on a full charge. HAH! There's a reason why the mileage remaining figure is often known as the guess-o-meter... :LOL:
 

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70 to 80 miles seems wildly optimistic to me. I would suggest that that figure was based on believing the range reported by the GOM at a full charge, not by actually driving that distance without running out of charge... ;) Newsflash - sometimes the GOM lies at full charge - by a hillarious amount.

If the battery capacity is up around 40Ah (brand new no degradation is about 46Ah) then you're realistically looking at about 60-65 miles summer no heater, 40-45 miles winter with full heater. Those are combined figures with about half 30 mph, half 60mph motorway. On a more degraded battery scale down appropriately.

For example mine is now down to 33Ah and my summer range is now 55 miles and winter range about 37 miles!

Despite this my GOM still sometimes reports as high as high 70's on a full charge. HAH! :LOL:
Concur with above, actual mileage could of course be lower if driving into headwind, wet, very cold etc.

Perhaps GOM mileage algorithm improved on later cars as I never see wildly optimistic ranges.
 

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I have had my 2011 for 3 yrs and as far as i am concerned it has cost me absolutely zero. Its worth more than i paid for it, I charge it from my PV and there is no maintenance except top up the 12V batt, and usual tyres and wipers but not brakes as you dont use them hardly.

One of the models(C-zero ?)after a certain date only has a 14kwh batt. On the 16 kwh versions, as my P-Ion is, it is possible to get 5mls/kwh ie 80mls, with urban/rural driving in summer no heat. BUT you cannot drive like most average racer types as then you will be down to 65mls. Motorways at 60mph (no wind,no heater) you should get 65mls but at 70mph you will be down to 45/50mls. Then knock off 10% for winter (reduced performance of batts) and say 10% for heater use if permanently on. Range is all in the right foot with 100mls poss at a steady 30mph in summer no heater.

Has a very small turning circle and can carry more than outside appearances suggest. I also have a E-Golf for longer journeys and an estate car for the heavy difficult stuff which most people perhaps have a trailer for. Around town my wife and I both prefer the Ion. Horses for courses.
 

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70 to 80 miles seems wildly optimistic to me. I would suggest that that figure was based on believing the range reported by the GOM at a full charge, not by actually driving that distance without running out of charge... ;) Newsflash - sometimes the GOM lies at full charge - by a hillarious amount.

If the battery capacity is up around 40Ah (brand new no degradation is about 46Ah) then you're realistically looking at about 60-65 miles summer no heater, 40-45 miles winter with full heater. Those are combined figures from my daily commute with about half 30 mph, half 60mph motorway. If you just potter around town at 30mph you'll get a bit higher.

On a more degraded battery scale down appropriately. For example mine is now down to 33Ah and my summer range is now 55 miles and winter range about 37 miles!

Despite this my GOM still sometimes reports as high as high 70's on a full charge. HAH! There's a reason why the mileage remaining figure is often known as the guess-o-meter... :LOL:
lol, high 70s, most I’ve had on the GOM is 72. Commuting range for me atm is ~55 miles but that’s major A roads keeping up with traffic with no heater/bad weather etc.
 
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