Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

1 - 20 of 39 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
When I purchase my car the original owner told me that it had been back to Citroen for a recall. I have the paper work (brake vacuum).

I thought I'd check on the DVSA website for recalls, and there appears to the 2 further recalls, R/2016/160 "loss of power" and R/2016/073 "engine may not start". Has anyone had this rework carried out on there cars?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Just spoken to a someone at London West way. When I told him I had a C Zero his reply was "What's that?". I gave him the registration and he told me that there systems say that there isn't anything outstanding.

The car last visited the dealership in October 2014, the recalls were launched August 2015 and April 2016.

I'm not entirely convinced, but if the computer says no. When I had a Chevrolet Volt the customer services person identified 3 outstanding recalls, and appears much more helpful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
73 Posts
My C-Zero has the exact symptoms as described in the Recall number R/2015/160 (loss of power) on the DVSA site shown above. The chassis number falls into the range of affected vehicles aswell. However, Citroen garages do not find this recall against my car in their computers. Therefore, they neither have the information on how to fix the problem (ECU replacement I believe) or will do it free of charge.

My Citroen garage made a diagnosis attempt over a couple of weeks and decided that the traction battery needed replacing. But I have made my own diagnostics using an OBD2 tool / Canion and find that all the cells are ok and within 5mV of each other which is very good. The problem is a voltage instability that comes and goes.

The car drives fine most of the time, but will go into tortoise mode kind of randomly, which I guess is a function of the voltage instability.

So right now I am stuck with a car that my partner cannot rely on for daily use and I cannot get it repaired as Citroen does not know what to do as they do not 'recognise' this recall on their systems.

I need to find some way to get more information on this recall at least so I may be able to resolve the problem myself. It is kind of crazy because you can also find this recall on the European Commission RAPEX system (alert number A12/1579/15) where it is described as 'serious' and with risk type 'injuries'. I think this could stem from the possibility of the car switching into tortoise mode whilst you are braking and therefore you would lose the regenerative part of the braking and may not stop in time before you hit something.

If anyone has any suggestions on how to proceed to resolve this problem, I would like to hear from you. My car has only covered 22,000km and is now quite useless.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,251 Posts
Suggest you take it up with Citroen UK and request their instructions as to which franchised or Robbins and Day dealers are fully trained to work on the CZero.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
73 Posts
Update on my progress...Citroen tell me that the recall has been applied to my car and reiterate that the traction battery is at fault. They tell me that cell 8 has low voltage, but I do not see this in my diagnostics with the Canion tool.

So they propose to replace the traction battery for a cost that is 3 times the value of the car, or to make a small reduction in the price of a new Citroen.

I think I am going to have to try and repair the car myself; otherwise it is a lemon on my drive. I don't know of any garages that will repair electric cars and have the necessary expertise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,251 Posts
Rubert, it would be good to observe battery cell voltages and variance down to a low state of charge, say 20%.

Also PM me if you want ideas on how to get Diagbox diagnostics on the traction battery and ECUs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
73 Posts
Hello, I made a test of the car running the battery right down to 0 bars on the car dashboard whilst monitoring the battery cell voltages on Canion the whole time. There were no issues at all with the battery cell voltage delta being normally either 5 or 10mV.

I then plugged the car in and left it for the night, but in the morning I found it was up to 22% SOC according to Canion and no longer possible to charge it.

I have tried to charge again a few times, but after a few seconds of being plugged in, it stops charging.

So now I have a new symptom - a permanent, rather than intermittent one - which at least may be easier to diagnose.

My next line of enquiry is to try more to read the fault codes in the ECU. I have tried a few applications with my OBDLink bluetooth tool including Motordata OBD with the 9 euro plugin, but no codes are found.

I also have the iMIEV Service Manual working on an old computer, but the best way to use that to diagnose the problem would be to use a MUT3 tool which I don't have.

Freddym, what is this Diagbox diagnostics tool you refer to?

Thanks for any help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,251 Posts
Hi, Diagbox is the PSA dealer tool that will extract the trouble codes and suggest possuble causes.

You might try on here or French Car Forum to see if someone close to you can help you out and plug in their copy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,441 Posts
Hello, I made a test of the car running the battery right down to 0 bars on the car dashboard whilst monitoring the battery cell voltages on Canion the whole time. There were no issues at all with the battery cell voltage delta being normally either 5 or 10mV.
A 5 or 10mV cell delta down at 10% SoC is excellent! On my car with three weak cells the delta at 10% is about 125mV. :( (And yet the car still drives and charges perfectly, albeit rapid charging is a bit slower than it used to be)

What is the reported Ah capacity of the battery on the My Trip Timer screen in Canion ? With cell balance as good as you report its very unlikely that there is a problem with any of the cells.

A faulty BMS monitoring module is a possibility though, over in another thread someone has been able to do a component level repair of a cell monitoring module, although this is a fairly specialist repair:

Ion/C-Zero/I-MiEV battery repair

As these parts are not normally available individually it's possible that that would cause PSA to say that a full pack is required.
I then plugged the car in and left it for the night, but in the morning I found it was up to 22% SOC according to Canion and no longer possible to charge it.

I have tried to charge again a few times, but after a few seconds of being plugged in, it stops charging.

So now I have a new symptom - a permanent, rather than intermittent one - which at least may be easier to diagnose.
Before panicking, check these three things:

1) Measure your AC mains voltage. These cars won't charge above 247 volts AC and will stop charging with the same symptoms you report. This caught me out last winter when we had high mains voltage for one day and the car refused to charge. (Unless I turned on the electric shower in the house!) UK mains voltage is allowed to go up to 252 volts so this is a problem for these cars in the UK if you live in an area that sometimes gets high mains voltage...

2) Check the trigger on the J1772 plug is lifting up properly - I got caught out the other day where I didn't push the plug fully in such that the trigger didn't pop up all the way, the car appeared to start charging as normal but as I walked away I head the Rolec wall point click off again. It was due to the trigger on the plug not lifting up correctly. (Thus the car thought the button was pressed down ready for removal)

3) Check the gear lever is resting in Park correctly and that the dashboard gear indicator is not flashing before you turn the key off. If the gear linkage on the gearbox is lacking lubrication the bowden cable from the gear lever will get springy and stiff in the drive and park position, this can result in a coherence fault in the park position. This will cause the P to flash and the car will refuse to charge. If the gear lever feels "springy" when pushed into park lubricate the ball joints and pivots on the side of the gearbox relating to the bowden cable. When properly lubricated the gear lever should have positive engagement into park and drive without any springiness.

I don't think your problem is one of these, but check these easy things first just in case.
My next line of enquiry is to try more to read the fault codes in the ECU. I have tried a few applications with my OBDLink bluetooth tool including Motordata OBD with the 9 euro plugin, but no codes are found.
Another free android app you could try is "hobdrive", it allows for some limited fault code reading on the Ion and provides some information that is not available in Canion.
I managed to make a diagnostic with Diagbox (attached, sorry it is in french) and there are quite a few faults. I am not sure where to start!
Argh! I went to have a look at this for you as I have Diagbox and am familiar with the reports but I don't read French. What country are you based in and is it possible to get the report in English ?

You might also find some help here, but you'd almost certainly need the report in English:

General Technical Discussions - Mitsubishi I-Miev Forum

There's a lot of very technical people on there who have repaired many faults on these cars including onboard chargers. Speakev is a bit more of a "drivers" forum than a technical forum, although there are a few of us who frequent both forums. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,441 Posts
Ok I found an online PDF translator and I have attached the translation.

Also, have you checked the voltage of the 12v accessory battery both with the key off and with the car in READY mode ? (Assuming you can still get it into READY mode)
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,441 Posts
After a quick glance through the translation these came to my attention:

1) Lots of faults logged relating to communications errors between different ECU's:

B1731 Lack of communication with the supervisory computer of the electric traction

U1100 Lack of communication between the built-in systems housing and the supervising computer of electric traction (electric drive)

U1101 Lack of communication between the built-in systems housing and the supervising computer of electric traction (selection lever)

U1100 message loss module of the electric vehicle control computer

U1920 Error on line K

P1B18 Loss of communication with the electric vehicle control computer

U1100 Lack of communication with the electric vehicle control computer

P1AA7 communication error on the CAN network with the electric vehicle control computer

U1922 Error K line (Line Communication)

29 Loss of communication with the traction battery calculator

U1920 Fault on the wired communication line with the electric engine ECU (MCU)

U1100 Default is no communication with the solenoid valves 1

U1116 Failure to lack of communication with the hands-free access computer

U1121 Defect information transmitted from the engine computer

U1100 Default is no communication with the engine ECU

U111C no communication fault with the controller of the traction battery

Most likely cause - low or fluctuating 12v battery voltage! Another possibility is a fault on the CAN bus lines causing loss of communications between ECU's. K-Line is a separate bus between some of these ECU's that is isolated from the CAN bus (and used as a backup for critical inter-ECU communications) so the fact that an error is reported for that as well makes a CAN bus fault much less likely and a low voltage scenario more likely as all ECU's will malfunction and have communication problems with low battery voltage.

2) This one is worrying:

P1A7D Failure of the voltage sensor cells of the controller of the traction battery 08

P1A33 Failure of the voltage sensor cells of the traction battery

This suggests a fault in one of the voltage monitoring boards in the pack, this could be similar to the fault reported in the thread by HEVRA where they ended up replacing a chip on one of the cell monitoring boards.

3) This one could be a root underlying cause:

P0562 auxiliary battery voltage fault

Check that 12v battery before going any further!

I replaced the 12v battery on my 2011 Ion about a month ago as it was almost completely shot. A lot of C-Zero/Ion/i-Miev are now at an age where the factory fitted 12v battery is hanging on by a thread.
 
1 - 20 of 39 Posts
Top