Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner
1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've got the device but im struggling to find an approved installer.

I've contacted EO directly asking for a list of approved installers, gave them my address. They keep replying asking me what product i am interested in, seems they only want to sell me a product first before giving me information on an installer. I've gone through another website but they're asking me to buy the product as well.

I've only got one quote from a company in london (i am in beds) who quoted me £360 all in to install, which I think is high for what, 1 or 2 hour labour? fuse box is in my hallway and charger is going less than 6m from that.

Thanks for any advice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,506 Posts
TBH, £360 sounds very good to me, given what's needed for the install. AFAIK, the EO Mini doesn't have open PEN fault protection, only DC tolerant earth leakage protection, so the connection box for it must have a Type A RCD, overcurrent protection for the 6mm² supply cable, plus must either be wired as a TT installation (with an earth electrode) or the connection box needs some other form of open PEN fault protection. If that £360 includes the £350 grant then I think this is just about OK. If it's a non-grant funded installation than I doubt it can be done in compliance with the regs for that price.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
TBH, £360 sounds very good to me, given what's needed for the install. AFAIK, the EO Mini doesn't have open PEN fault protection, only DC tolerant earth leakage protection, so the connection box for it must have a Type A RCD, overcurrent protection for the 6mm² supply cable, plus must either be wired as a TT installation (with an earth electrode) or the connection box needs some other form of open PEN fault protection. If that £360 includes the £350 grant then I think this is just about OK. If it's a non-grant funded installation than I doubt it can be done in compliance with the regs for that price.
Im not going down the grant route as I bought the EO mini v2 from a private seller. At £360 + the price i paid for the EO mini, it is still cheaper than buying this charger with the grant deducted.

I still think £360 is expensive. This is a price from a BIG firm and are travelling 60 mile roundtrip to install it. Thats why I want more quotes from local approved installers, pretty sure it'll be cheaper. Possibly £250 odd. No harm in getting more quotes :cool:

Do you know where I can find EO approved installers?

Attached is my consumer box.
Font Gas Machine Office equipment Electronic instrument
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,506 Posts
Bear in mind that you will need to have some form of connection box installed, with a either Type A RCD, plus a 32 A or 40 A MCB, or a 32 A or 40 A DP RCBO, with a Type A RCD characteristic, plus an open PEN fault protection device, or an earth electrode installed, and that this ideally needs to be connected into the supply ahead of the CU, as you do not have the required protection in that unit. £360 sounds too cheap to me to do a compliant and safe install, and I wonder if the person quoting has considered the safety protection that is required.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Bear in mind that you will need to have some form of connection box installed, with a either Type A RCD, plus a 32 A or 40 A MCB, or a 32 A or 40 A DP RCBO, with a Type A RCD characteristic, plus an open PEN fault protection device, or an earth electrode installed, and that this ideally needs to be connected into the supply ahead of the CU, as you do not have the required protection in that unit. £360 sounds too cheap to me to do a compliant and safe install, and I wonder if the person quoting has considered the safety protection that is required.
They quoted me £360 on the phone but, after the phone call ended they emailed me the quote, which is £320... bit odd. I just emailed him my consumer unit picture, lets see what he says.

The company is called: Homezap.

Regards
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,506 Posts
I can list what I think would be needed in terms of materials:

Henley block and tails to connect to the incoming supply (I'd not advise connecting into that consumer unit, for several good reasons, not least the high load for long periods and the lack of any ability to fit the required circuit protection in there)
Small connection box that contains a 32 A/40 A RCBO, with a Type A RCD characteristic
Open Pen fault protection, either an earth electrode connected to the charge point, or an open PEN fault protection device within the connection box, like the Viridian unit
A run of 6mm² SWA cable, plus cable glands, to connect the unit to the connection box.

The installer will also need to undertake a total demand assessment before starting work, assess that the main fuse has a suitable rating for the additional load, inspect and test the work, issue an EIC, notify the work to the DNO and also lodge the EIC with his/her Part P body, so building control have a record (it's notifiable work in England and Wales).

Getting all that for £320 suggests that corners are going to be cut, I'm afraid, as that barely covers the cost of the materials needed, let alone the labour.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I can list what I think would be needed in terms of materials:

Henley block and tails to connect to the incoming supply (I'd not advise connecting into that consumer unit, for several good reasons, not least the high load for long periods and the lack of any ability to fit the required circuit protection in there)
Small connection box that contains a 32 A/40 A RCBO, with a Type A RCD characteristic
Open Pen fault protection, either an earth electrode connected to the charge point, or an open PEN fault protection device within the connection box, like the Viridian unit
A run of 6mm² SWA cable, plus cable glands, to connect the unit to the connection box.

The installer will also need to undertake a total demand assessment before starting work, assess that the main fuse has a suitable rating for the additional load, inspect and test the work, issue an EIC, notify the work to the DNO and also lodge the EIC with his/her Part P body, so building control have a record (it's notifiable work in England and Wales).

Getting all that for £320 suggests that corners are going to be cut, I'm afraid, as that barely covers the cost of the materials needed, let alone the labour.
If £320 barely covers the cost of material, and the chargers are £300 odd at cost price.. £600/£700 is a normal price for a supply and fit installation, how are they making any money on supply and fit installs? Material price cannot be this high, surely? What corners could they cut if material was this high?

Btw, I showed them my fuse box and he said the price is £356 as they need a "Type A RCBO".

FYI, my fuse box and meter is located in the hallway, you can drill through the front of the house straight into the meter cupboard. The charger I wanted located about 4 metres away from that. So its pretty straight forward and probably one of the easier installs, i'd imagine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,506 Posts
There are lots of factors at work, including some installers that are not actually complying with the regs, I regret to say. This is turning into another example of the sort of things that happen as soon as a government grant gets chucked into a market, together with one or two unscrupulous types that decide they can make a quick buck by cutting some corners, banking on them being lucky and no one getting hurt or killed.

Sadly, really poor standards in electrical work are far from being unusual. There are a handful of us here that have experienced the delights that are some domestic electrical installations first hand, and know that there are loads of cowboys around. The industry isn't well regulated at all, for example someone with zero experience can spend a few weeks at college and leave with certificates showing that they are a "Domestic Installer". This is a pretty meaningless definition, as very often some of these people will be less competent than some DIY'ers.

The flip side is that there are two categories of highly competent categories of electricians, Qualified Electricians, that have 3 to 4 years training experience, plus Level 3, and Approved Electricians, that have essentially the same level of experience and qualifications.

Hard for the general public to know exactly who they are employing, but one clue is that anyone doing a job for a suspiciously low price may not actually be either a Qualified or Approved electrician. FWIW, technically I'm a Qualified Electrician and former lecturer that taught electrician apprentices C&G and ONC electrical engineering science. This was entirely a part-time job, I gained experience as what was then called an Electrician's Mate for 4 years, in addition to passing all the exams, originally as my day job just didn't pay at all well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
There are lots of factors at work, including some installers that are not actually complying with the regs, I regret to say. This is turning into another example of the sort of things that happen as soon as a government grant gets chucked into a market, together with one or two unscrupulous types that decide they can make a quick buck by cutting some corners, banking on them being lucky and no one getting hurt or killed.

Sadly, really poor standards in electrical work are far from being unusual. There are a handful of us here that have experienced the delights that are some domestic electrical installations first hand, and know that there are loads of cowboys around. The industry isn't well regulated at all, for example someone with zero experience can spend a few weeks at college and leave with certificates showing that they are a "Domestic Installer". This is a pretty meaningless definition, as very often some of these people will be less competent than some DIY'ers.

The flip side is that there are two categories of highly competent categories of electricians, Qualified Electricians, that have 3 to 4 years training experience, plus Level 3, and Approved Electricians, that have essentially the same level of experience and qualifications.

Hard for the general public to know exactly who they are employing, but one clue is that anyone doing a job for a suspiciously low price may not actually be either a Qualified or Approved electrician. FWIW, technically I'm a Qualified Electrician and former lecturer that taught electrician apprentices C&G and ONC electrical engineering science. This was entirely a part-time job, I gained experience as what was then called an Electrician's Mate for 4 years, in addition to passing all the exams, originally as my day job just didn't pay at all well.
I can see you have a lot of knowledge. Out of curiosity, do you think EO approved installers would gamble with cutting corners? I spoke to one other installer today who wasn't EO approved and said to become approved they need to go on a course with EO. He could have lied and just quoted me and got my hard earned.

I am only looking for approved EO installers as I believe that will keep my warranty valid? Approved installers surely cannot be cowboys?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,506 Posts
I can see you have a lot of knowledge. Out of curiosity, do you think EO approved installers would gamble with cutting corners? I spoke to one other installer today who wasn't EO approved and said to become approved they need to go on a course with EO. He could have lied and just quoted me and got my hard earned.

I am only looking for approved EO installers as I believe that will keep my warranty valid? Approved installers surely cannot be cowboys?
I can't speak for EO, but I have become an "approved installer" for manufacturers in the past by just spending an hour on the phone with them, or attending a half-day course. None included anything covering the regs, as you're expected to know those inside out, anyway. All were really about understanding the product, not necessarily the core function, almost always their proprietary aspects like controls, initialisation procedures, customer advice on use, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I can't speak for EO, but I have become an "approved installer" for manufacturers in the past by just spending an hour on the phone with them, or attending a half-day course. None included anything covering the regs, as you're expected to know those inside out, anyway. All were really about understanding the product, not necessarily the core function, almost always their proprietary aspects like controls, initialisation procedures, customer advice on use, etc.
Just got another quote of £430. They said that I could potentially claim for the grant. Which means my grand total would be £166. In the quote it mentions that they recommend a SPD to be installed for an additional £160, is this needed?

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,506 Posts
In the quote it mentions that they recommend a SPD to be installed for an additional £160, is this needed?

Thanks.

Not mandatory for retrofit, no, and probably debatable as to whether they are really needed, although they are going in new installations now. Pretty much every bit of electronic kit has had surge protection internally for many years now, so adding SPDs to the supply is really a belt and braces thing. I have once heard of a PV inverter failing because it had been subjected to a lot of surges (a fault on the supply network - a joint had been arcing for a long time, causing spikes). In that case all that had happened was that the MOVs that provide the surge protection had worn out, and when this happens they reduce in trigger voltage, which then blows an internal fuse. Only cost a couple of pounds in parts to fix the inverter and get it up and running again, and the fault wasn't something that happens that often, I think.

SPDs wear out in the same way, and when they do they trip their own MCB, and put a flag up to show they are dead and need replacing. Probably a nice thing to have, but I think the jury is still out as to whether they will prevent appliances failing as often. My guess is that they probably won't, as most appliance failures aren't caused by supply surges.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top