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I've just read a newspaper article.


To get to the charge time they predict my '***-packet' maths says it would need a 600kW charger. Even if that was available how thick and heavy would the charging cable have to be?
Would the average user be able to lift it?

Or have I misunderstood, (nothing new there).

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It is feasible.

The Tesla Semi has 1 MW charging.

Now you can increase the pack voltage and cool the cable.

All of which helps to keep the weight down.

Failing that you could have an automated charging system. :)
 

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I take the 5 minutes with a grain of salt. It sounds pretty cool marketing wise, but I think it is overengineering of a problem that is relatively minor. If instead of 5 minutes we go for 12 minutes, we're talking 5C instead of 12C. If we assume that an average C segment car will be equipped with an 80 kWh battery in 5 years time, when EV mass adoption is around the corner, then we're talking about 400 kW, which is just a little more than the 350 kW Ionity chargers we already have.

12 minutes is on par with a petrol station once we have VIN based payment:instead of putting in the nozzle, waiting to fiill, return nozzle, go to the bathroom, queue up for payment and drive off it will now be:
hook up, go to the bathroom, come back, unhook and drive off. If you have time for lunch, go to the cheaper 100 kW charger and leave your car while you're eating.
 

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I've just read a newspaper article.


To get to the charge time they predict my '***-packet' maths says it would need a 600kW charger. Even if that was available how thick and heavy would the charging cable have to be?
Would the average user be able to lift it?

Or have I misunderstood, (nothing new there).

Sent from my Nokia 6.1 using Tapatalk
See this thread here for more comments... Electric car batteries with five-minute charging times...
 

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600kW charging cable thickness: say a 'normal' cable in a charging station can deliver 150kW. To keep the thickness the same, voltage would have to be raised 4 times, say to 1600V. I think VAG's 800V charging ability's the way forward to double charging speed with the existing diameter cable.
I for one don't like the idea of 1.6kV motors, batteries, cables and associated electronics. Realistically, that's the only way we're going to see petrol pump-speed EV charging.
 

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The manufacturers are integrating cooling systems into the cables, see example below which can handle upto 500A in CCS mode. There's plenty of insulating fluids which you could run through suitable cables but the designs must start getting pretty complex to incorporae coolant management and cooling of connections, the plug-socket interface etc.

 

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Elsewhere it was stated that a Lithium Ion Phosphate battery had been developed with a charging time of 10 mins for (I think) 200 miles range.
 

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You could also run two leads. Bit of a hassle but perhaps better than a 1.6kV pack.

Tesla are trying exactly that with the Semi. It plugs into two or more Superchargers.
 

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go to the cheaper 100 kW charger and leave your car while you're eating.
You dont even need 100kW for this a 50kW charger charges a 40 leaf from 20-80% in the EXACT amount of time it takes to order and eat a McDonalds and use the facilities!

What a happy coincidence it that??
🤔👍

Never has fast food been so excusable! 😉
 

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This tehnology is use even now on small level..- so called capacitor - they charged up to full in 20 secs...
This will be the next tehnology... maybe a hibrid with power cell (no matter what kind)... Imagine Recharge faster than refueling...
 

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Ever higher charge rates will need thicker and thicker cable. Yes, you can cool the cable. Unfortunately that means the efficiency is getting worse (power being dissipated as heat) which just seems wrong.

The ideal solution will be high temperature super conducting cables.

However, this could be where wireless charging becomes a better option than cables as the cable efficiency drops off due to the practical limitations of cable size. Just need a car with wireless charging built in, which of course they all do.
 

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However, this could be where wireless charging becomes a better option than cables as the cable efficiency drops off due to the practical limitations of cable size. Just need a car with wireless charging built in, which of course they all do.
Wireless charging will have much higher losses than a cable. Plus I don't think I want to be anywhere near 600kW being transmitted wirelessly. Might end up being microwaved.
 

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This tehnology is use even now on small level..- so called capacitor - they charged up to full in 20 secs...
This will be the next tehnology... maybe a hibrid with power cell (no matter what kind)... Imagine Recharge faster than refueling...
Often wondered if cars could use capacitors to collect and store regen energy, and whether that would be more efficient than pumping it back into the battery

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Often wondered if cars could use capacitors to collect and store regen energy, and whether that would be more efficient than pumping it back into the battery

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The issue is that regen generates 3 phase AC which is converted to DC by onboard inverter used to charge the battery.

If you want to use capacitors, you need a substantial volume as capacitors are rather large for the amount they hold and you’ll need additional bypass mechanism to ensure elections go to capacitor bank not battery pack. Why complicate things for such little energy losses?


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Super capacitors exist and are used in small applications. They have much larger cycling lifetime and peak current load. However, they are also 10-20 times larger and heavier than Li-ion batteries which is why you will not see one as the main traction battery in a car. Not sure about costs though.
 

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Supercaps cost an arm & a leg. Capacitors also suffer a steady drop-off in voltage, as the charge reduces. Li-ion batteries keep the voltage nice & high,then there's a cliff-edge type drop when near empty. So a lot easier to design with.
So supercaps are nice for very transient, high-power surge handling, of the kind the hybrid EVs have lots of. Not so great for long-term, cheap, minimal-internal-loss energy storage that Bevs need so much of.
 

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@HandyAndy that was kinda my thinking with regen. Didn't consider the 3 phase to DC aspect @Hermit Dave mentioned though.


Who knows maybe someone will crack embedding copper coils inside wheel rims in the future.


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@HandyAndy that was kinda my thinking with regen. Didn't consider the 3 phase to DC aspect @Hermit Dave mentioned though.


Who knows maybe someone will crack embedding copper coils inside wheel rims in the future.


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Hub motors? Easiest way to store regen energy is using flywheel used often in large vehicles


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Wireless charging will have much higher losses than a cable. Plus I don't think I want to be anywhere near 600kW being transmitted wirelessly. Might end up being microwaved.
Wireless charging will have much higher losses than a cable. Plus I don't think I want to be anywhere near 600kW being transmitted wirelessly. Might end up being microwaved.
Don't worry. Microwave (ovens) operate in the 2.4GHz band whereas inductive charging can, typically, be at about 85KHz
 
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