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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Today I noticed an annoying problem on my 2016 30kWh and after reading the owners manual it seems like the car is not behaving as it should be ?

My other half took the spare intelligent key to work with her so she could get into the car after work and wait for me there, all was fine up until we wanted to stop somewhere on the way home and I found I couldn't lock the car using either the door handle button or the buttons on the fob... just rapid beeping as if the key had been left inside the car.

Of course the other key was inside the car and after a search I located it, but according to the manual this should have worked:

Page 3-10 Locking doors

*3 Doors will not lock by pushing the door handle request switch when the intelligent key is left inside the vehicle. However, when an Intelligent Key is inside the vehicle, doors can be locked with another registered intelligent key.
My interpretation of this is that if there is only one key inside the car it won't let you lock the car, however if there is a second key outside the car it will let you use the key that is outside the car to lock the car despite the first key being present inside the car.

But apparently not! Is this a bug, or is the manual just wrong ?

If the manual is wrong it's a bit of a bummer - it means that having a spare key inadvertently left in a handbag in the car prevents the car being locked and both keys have to be removed from the car to lock it - not necessarily convienient.
 

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Leaf 30kWh, Outlander PHEV
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I could never lock the Leaf30 if the other key was in the car. Sometimes it mistakes proximity for being inside so I try again after stepping away

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Can the doors be locked by pushing the button on the key that's outside the car, rather than the button on the door handle? That would seem consistent with the bit of the manual that you quote.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Can the doors be locked by pushing the button on the key that's outside the car, rather than the button on the door handle? That would seem consistent with the bit of the manual that you quote.
Unfortunately that didn’t work. Even pressing the lock button on the key 5 metres from the car would refuse to lock (rapid beeping) if the second key was inside the car.
 

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My Juke was the same, I think it's just the way they work. I once spent an hour sitting by the side of the Juke when the lovely Jane left her handbag in the car in a car park in Savon Italy. Didn't trust Johnny foreigner with my lovely new Juke! The Leaf is exactly the same, must be a Nissan thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Sounds like a feature that 99% of the time is a lifesaver - and 1% of the time is a minor inconvenience.
I wouldn't mind so much if it's a feature if the way it behaved was as described in the manual.

However I would argue that if you use the remote lock button on a key fob which is not detected as being in or near the car, it should lock even if there is another key in the car, because you have proven that the key which locked the car was not in the car, and that you were physically in possession of it, because you pressed the button.

Making you search every bag in a car to find a second misplaced key before it's possible to lock the car at all is a bit of a PITA. After this experience I'm just going to leave the spare key at home all the time rather than having my other half sometimes have it on her, so it sort of defeats the point of having a spare key, especially when up to four keys can be bound to the car.
 

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Leaf 30kWh, Outlander PHEV
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The car has no way of knowing if the button was pressed while being inside the car or outside.
The proximity detection is response to comns with the key. It's a very simple system

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Discussion Starter #10
The car has no way of knowing if the button was pressed while being inside the car or outside.
The proximity detection is response to comns with the key. It's a very simple system
Not true.

Each key bound to the car has a unique code and can be distinguished from one another by the car. (Otherwise it wouldn't be possible to de-register a stolen key)

Proximity detection in these kind of systems work by the key receiving a low frequency short range signal transmitted by the car near the exterior of the doors, boot, and also inside, which causes the key to respond using its high frequency (433 or 868Mhz) long range RF transmitter - the same transmitter which is used when you press the buttons on the key for manual lock/unlock. And this response is unique to that specific key.

So the car is always fully aware which key out of multiple keys has authorised unlocking or locking of the car - whether by proximity and handle press or by pressing a button on the key from a distance - it makes no difference. The car is also aware of whether the key is inside the car or not when the button was pressed.

Try it for yourself - press the remote lock buttons on the key fob while the fob is inside the car and it will be ignored, hold it out the window and then it will work. So even though you're using the buttons on the key the proximity detection is still playing a role in identifying whether the key is inside or outside the car.

If they chose to (which they apparently haven't, manual page notwithstanding) it's perfectly possible for the car to detect one key sitting inside the car, but a second key outside the car sending a remote lock command and choose to lock the car on the basis that the key that requested the car be locked is in fact outside the car.

Anyway I guess I'll just have to accept the manual page is misleading and leave the spare key at home.
 

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A friend of mine thought it was a good idea to leave spare key in car. Was broken into on her driveway (presumably to check the glove box for valuables) they must have been delighted to press the stop/start button for the car to start. Car was never found.
 

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What would be the point of locking the car if there's a key inside it. You could just press one of the door buttons and open it.

Expecting to be able to leave a spare wireless key in the car is utterly ridiculous.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
What would be the point of locking the car if there's a key inside it. You could just press one of the door buttons and open it.
No you couldn't. The door buttons only work if a key is outside the car in close proximity. The car knows the difference between the key being inside or outside. Outside lets doors lock or unlock, inside lets the car start.
Expecting to be able to leave a spare wireless key in the car is utterly ridiculous.
Not really. Traditional keys allow you to accidentally leave a spare pair of keys in a bag and still lock the car to make it secure.

Of course if the window was smashed and they searched all the bags in the car and found them they could drive away with the car. And in the wireless key case they could press start to start the car if they broke in since one of the keys is in the car somewhere. A little easier but it still requires breaking in in the first place.

But the current behaviour of the wireless keys gives the opposite problem - you need to leave the car and there is absolutely zero way to lock the car until you search possibly dozens of bags in the car to find the errant key. When it happened to me there were only a couple of bags in the car and I knew the spare key might be there so not such a big deal but imagine a family car packed with dozens of bags for a holiday trip where the entire contents of the boot has to be emptied onto the ground in a parking lot to search for the second key so you can lock the car and leave it securely. (See Barfly's example above) And that's assuming the driver even understands that the beeping and refusal to lock means another key is in the car somewhere. (EG they've read the manual...)

While having a key in the car that can start it if the car is broken into is indeed a security risk, so is being forced to leave the car without being able to lock it because you can't find the second key. Sometimes "clever" security systems can backfire on you and just make life more difficult.
 

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Writing long paragraphs doesn't change the fact that what you're wanting to do sounds daft. If you 'really' must store a spare key IN the car. Why not take the battery out.
 

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Maybe ask your insurance company if your car will still be insured if you leave a spare key inside it :)
 

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But the current behaviour of the wireless keys gives the opposite problem - you need to leave the car and there is absolutely zero way to lock the car until you search possibly dozens of bags in the car to find the errant key.
Have they removed the physical lock from the drivers door in newer cars then? I would expect you could employ the same technique I used to use to lock the car if I wanted to leave the auxiliary power on for LeafSpy logging. Lock the rear and passenger doors from the drivers door controls, then get out and lock the drivers door with the physical key inside the fob. Not perfect, but as least it's locked.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Writing long paragraphs doesn't change the fact that what you're wanting to do sounds daft. If you 'really' must store a spare key IN the car. Why not take the battery out.
Thanks for your input. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Have they removed the physical lock from the drivers door in newer cars then? I would expect you could employ the same technique I used to use to lock the car if I wanted to leave the auxiliary power on for LeafSpy logging. Lock the rear and passenger doors from the drivers door controls, then get out and lock the drivers door with the physical key inside the fob. Not perfect, but as least it's locked.
There is a physical key, but I suspect it won't let you lock all the doors if it detects another key in the car. And how do you get out of the drivers door without unlocking all the doors anyway ? Using the lock button on the drivers door locks and unlocks all doors together.
 
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