Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

1 - 20 of 51 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
742 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
The question is simple.

The only company I know of is MUXAN who I've come across via Youtube. These guys will extend your 24kw Leaf all the way up to a 60 kWh version. I have asked and he has said No he doesn't have plans to extend the e-golf battery :-(

I currently own an e-Golf on a PCP - But I would seriously keep the car beyond my 3yrs lease if I was able to have the battery extended up to a 40+kwh version. once a month I do a 170-mile round trip to visit my family. The Golf is an amazingly capable car, but it lacks 50 miles I wish it had.

So back to my question - Does anyone know of any companies who can add 10Kwh to my golf?? or remove my battery pack and we
Trade-in the old batteries if you like and get a New more dense pack similar to the Zoe how it has grown from 22kwh upto 52 without changing the actual size of the battery compartment.
 

·
Premium Member
2020 Corsa E
Joined
·
7,094 Posts
You might have to drive it to Austria...



It's far easier to upgrade the entire car to a model with the needed range and let someone else buy your old car. Plus the original battery warranty will be void so if they do a bad job you are stuck with a brick. If they disappear you'll get little help from VW. There's lots of people with after market EV mods and they're alright for a classic or weekender but if you rely on the car you don't really want anyone messing with it.

How far short is the Golf? Can you charge at your family's house?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
742 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
You might have to drive it to Austria...



It's far easier to upgrade the entire car to a model with the needed range and let someone else buy your old car. Plus the original battery warranty will be void so if they do a bad job you are stuck with a brick. If they disappear you'll get little help from VW. There's lots of people with after market EV mods and they're alright for a classic or weekender but if you rely on the car you don't really want anyone messing with it.

How far short is the Golf? Can you charge at your family's house?
Surely going forward. that is Very wasteful???

For instance take my Golf, that could live well over 10yrs. but with the best intentions the battery will never last long enough. Surely moving forward we will need battery upgrade companies to spring up?

MUXAN have a great Idea with the Leaf and they seem to have tied down that single car of the market. but we have so many more amazing cars that would last for much longer and be more environmentally useful if they had Newer larger more dense batteries. cars like
  • e-Golf
  • Merc B 250
  • smaller Zoe's
  • Mk1 Kia Soul Ev's (which I owned and if it had an option for a larger battery swap I'd have kept it a lot longer than the 3 yrs I owned it)
  • These are only a few cars I could think off the top of my head
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
742 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
You might have to drive it to Austria...



It's far easier to upgrade the entire car to a model with the needed range and let someone else buy your old car. Plus the original battery warranty will be void so if they do a bad job you are stuck with a brick. If they disappear you'll get little help from VW. There's lots of people with after market EV mods and they're alright for a classic or weekender but if you rely on the car you don't really want anyone messing with it.

How far short is the Golf? Can you charge at your family's house?
I am very happy with my e-Golf. It is a car I could afford with almost double the extra miles I had on my previous
EV. I am not the kind of person who will strive and overstretch themselves to get into an EV that will stretch our family finances. The golf works for 95% of what we need :)

I am thinking 3yrs down the line that since I absolutely love my golf because it was an Ex-demo car that had pretty much every single Option ticked on it I would like to keep the car and use it for a lot longer than the finance term. I have sat in the New Mk8 golf and it is nowhere close to the Mk7 in quality feel, The inside has a lot more plastic than the MK7 even the Mk7 has gas struts for opening the bonnet whereas the Cost-cutting on the MK8 means you get the old fashioned metal Bonet stick, don't get me wrong that's fine, but it shows all the little short cuts that VW has made. even the doors don't shut with the usual Thud. I can see cost-cutting all over the car. and I have seen others say the same with the ID3 how it's just like a glorified VW UP. So yes I would like to keep my MK7.5 for as long as I possibly can. and if that meant buying a new larger battery I would be happy doing that in the future if it was available. Most of us use an Ev because its good for the environment, surely a large part of that is driving the car for a lot longer than 3-5yrs

BTW that Kreizel battery car would be the Dream for the golf, but sadly that is never happening according to them :-(
 

·
Premium Member
2020 Corsa E
Joined
·
7,094 Posts
I doubt if the original battery will fail in the golf before the rest of the car is scrap through rust or expensive repairs to something else in the system dying.

Renault thought they'd get a load of 22kw Zoe batteries but they didn't. Most of them have discovered the batteries will last far longer than they thought.

What's the battery warranty on the Golf?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
742 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I doubt if the original battery will fail in the golf before the rest of the car is scrap through rust or expensive repairs to something else in the system dying.

Renault thought they'd get a load of 22kw Zoe batteries but they didn't. Most of them have discovered the batteries will last far longer than they thought.

What's the battery warranty on the Golf?
100000 miles. which is the point I will reach soonest. I drive 26k per year. so 4yrs for me... I know as you say the battery isn't all of a sudden going to die, but I am hoping with fingers crossed that someone will crack the battery swapage/upgeadding market on the golf like they have with the Nissan's
 

·
Premium Member
2020 Corsa E
Joined
·
7,094 Posts
I don't think anyone will. The liability for any accident or injury due to having a non original battery pack is also an area that insurance companies will get interested in.
 

·
Registered
Kia Soul EV 2020
Joined
·
1,642 Posts
100000 miles. which is the point I will reach soonest. I drive 26k per year. so 4yrs for me... I know as you say the battery isn't all of a sudden going to die, but I am hoping with fingers crossed that someone will crack the battery swapage/upgeadding market on the golf like they have with the Nissan's
What is it that you think will happen at 100k miles? The battery will suddenly burst into nothing? Sorry but these are just arbitrary numbers as any other warranty. The traction battery should be able to last a lot longer than that.

But again, you should be able to judge if there is any degradation to your battery? What is your current mileage?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,207 Posts
but I am hoping with fingers crossed that someone will crack the battery swapage/upgeadding market on the golf like they have with the Nissan's
Not convinced either that the LEAF battery swap is very satisfactory, too much software and hardware complexity for battery changes. As others say, either make the eGolf work, or change and let someone else drive it within its capabilities. Rapid chargers are increasing so rapid charging is getting slightly less of a problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
742 Posts
Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
What is it that you think will happen at 100k miles? The battery will suddenly burst into nothing? Sorry but these are just arbitrary numbers as any other warranty. The traction battery should be able to last a lot longer than that.

But again, you should be able to judge if there is any degradation to your battery? What is your current mileage?
Did I say my Car is all of a SUDDEN going to blow up because it has reached 100k miles? I have solar PV and an inverter on my house the PV has 20yrs and the Inverter has 10 yrs warranty. My Inverter could last 20yrs but could also blow up at 8yrs and be covered under warranty.. 🤷‍♀️

I am just of the train of thought that it is very wasteful to throw away a car that is perfectly fine for my daily commute but won't manage my once a month trip to see family (by the time it has 100k miles on the clock it might need 2 chargers instead of the current 1, who knows its a guessing game) I was simply pondering the thought if there would be any companies or if there are already companies that could offer a battery swap or battery enlargement when I am out of my finance agreement in 3yrs time... I have other things to consider in my car. I have lowered it, put nicer 18" wheels on it. PPF the front, I am considering adding the VW SUB that fits in the old wheel well, I have fully De-chromed the car, de-badged. as mentioned above the car is a very high spec car.

Lots of people love their cars and drive their cars for a lot longer than the idea of the current generation of a throw-away society of change it every 2yrs. I think this guy gets what I am thinking when I talk about enjoying and investing in a car for longer than a short term.

ps - I think the ID3 is a glorified VW UP! . Sorry ID3 owners, but I feel my Mk7.5 quality is far better than even the new Mk8. - Another reason to want to keep my car

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
742 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
How do you throw away a car? I sell mine onto someone else to use. Some fail due to damage and others fail due to excess cost to repair, but none are thrown away.
Its a figure of speech or are you just Trolling?

I have paid all that interest on the loan. Why throw that away, and start all over again, when the golf I'm sure will still be a solid piece of car..🤔
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,207 Posts
Cars have a residual value, the cost of doing a battery exchange is unlikely to be cost effective. Its not like buying a new phone and the old one just gets left in a drawer. Unless your battery fails and gets replaced under warranty, it is unlikely that it will get replaced, even with a 2nd hand crashed replacement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
742 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Cars have a residual value, the cost of doing a battery exchange is unlikely to be cost effective. Its not like buying a new phone and the old one just gets left in a drawer. Unless your battery fails and gets replaced under warranty, it is unlikely that it will get replaced, even with a 2nd hand crashed replacement.
You forget the old 35kwh battery I would be replacing, if it was replaced. it would have a value to it killing some of the cost like the guy mentioned in his i3 video. Even if I was to add it to my current battery I have linked to my Solar PV it would be worth something.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,813 Posts
I have paid all that interest on the loan. Why throw that away, and start all over again, when the golf I'm sure will still be a solid piece of car..🤔
Then just live with the fact you'll have to recharge while en route once in a while.
I've got a 64kWh/250-300 mile car ... It's annoying, but I'm resigned to the fact I'll have to use public chargers if I go more than about 140 miles from home.

If you think you will ever find a car that ticks every single box you want then you will die disappointed - seriously. The enemy of good is perfect. In 50 years I've never had a perfect ICE car and EVs are just infants.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
I doubt if the original battery will fail in the golf before the rest of the car is scrap through rust or expensive repairs to something else in the system dying.

Renault thought they'd get a load of 22kw Zoe batteries but they didn't. Most of them have discovered the batteries will last far longer than they thought.

What's the battery warranty on the Golf?
This was a strange experience I had with the Zoe. I did have a total battery failure, but actually it was caused by something else entirely, but I bought the Zoe for nothing with just 4k miles on the clock, and sold it 3 years later for +2k and 18k miles more than when I bought it.

What had happened in the meantime, was a surge of public charge points, and as stated above, they just wern't failing or degrading anything like how they expected. Causing confidence to rise, along with resale values.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,205 Posts
IMO i think battery swapping is much like say engine swapping an ICE car. It will remain a very niche thing.

You can, if you really want to, fit a nice shiney modern Euro6 diesel engine to a 20 year old Golf. But for most people, its just not worth it. The cost of the work, outweighs the value of the completed car, and your much better off for the most part, just buying a vehicle that actually suits your needs. There will always be a few people who will do these things ofcourse, but it rarely makes sense, and its usually done more for emotional reasons.

LEAF swaps have gained popularity for a few reasons. The platform has remained mostly unchanged for 10 years, and over that time has seen big increases to available range. Its also a fairly popular EV and has attracted a decent number of "tinkerers" who have worked out the CANBUS stuff needed to do the swap. However it still doesnt really make actual financial sense, because the used packs are far too expensive. If you could pick up a used 40kwh pack for a grand or two, and slot it into a leaf 24 with serious degredation then that might just about add up. I guess bit like buying a car with a blown engine for peanuts and getting a replacement engine from the breakers yard. Infact i did exactly that with my first Audi. Bought a dirt cheap car off ebay with a siezed engine, got another engine for it for a few hundred quid, swapped it myself on the driveway and ended up in a nice Audi for half the price it should have been.

But i looked at the numbers for my LEAF30, its worth maybe 10k currently. Installing a 40 pack would cost about 8 grand. I can buy an Actual LEAF 40 for 18 grand, with warranty and manufacturer support etc etc. And its also very likely that the converted LEAF30 is not worth anywhere near 18grand if i were to try and sell it. It will always be worth less than a genuine 40kwh car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
IMO i think battery swapping is much like say engine swapping an ICE car. It will remain a very niche thing.

You can, if you really want to, fit a nice shiney modern Euro6 diesel engine to a 20 year old Golf. But for most people, its just not worth it. The cost of the work, outweighs the value of the completed car, and your much better off for the most part, just buying a vehicle that actually suits your needs. There will always be a few people who will do these things ofcourse, but it rarely makes sense, and its usually done more for emotional reasons.

LEAF swaps have gained popularity for a few reasons. The platform has remained mostly unchanged for 10 years, and over that time has seen big increases to available range. Its also a fairly popular EV and has attracted a decent number of "tinkerers" who have worked out the CANBUS stuff needed to do the swap. However it still doesnt really make actual financial sense, because the used packs are far too expensive. If you could pick up a used 40kwh pack for a grand or two, and slot it into a leaf 24 with serious degredation then that might just about add up. I guess bit like buying a car with a blown engine for peanuts and getting a replacement engine from the breakers yard. Infact i did exactly that with my first Audi. Bought a dirt cheap car off ebay with a siezed engine, got another engine for it for a few hundred quid, swapped it myself on the driveway and ended up in a nice Audi for half the price it should have been.

But i looked at the numbers for my LEAF30, its worth maybe 10k currently. Installing a 40 pack would cost about 8 grand. I can buy an Actual LEAF 40 for 18 grand, with warranty and manufacturer support etc etc. And its also very likely that the converted LEAF30 is not worth anywhere near 18grand if i were to try and sell it. It will always be worth less than a genuine 40kwh car.
I definitely agree with the fiscal element. It feels a little bit different with an EV, given that's really the only wearable part.

I once (during the nikasil saga), bought a 18M old E36 BMW 328i, with worn bores in the block. I then proceeded to pay BMW for a brand new engine (5k + fitting). What I ended up with, a fairly new car, with a brand new manufacturer engine. For a lot less than a super low mileage example would ever cost me (becuase a knackered engine & no service history doesn't fetch much at auction). That car lasted years and years.

I think because the battery is pretty much the only wearable item, there will definitely be an upgrade path in the future. As soon as they stop trying to re-fab the original packs out of working cells and start to create generic battery modules (that fit, in multiples, inside the original housings) and BMC's. You could see some mileage there.

Also, I'd wager that selling something like a brand new 10kw pack for 1.5k, using fairly low tech components. That will certainly serve the old people who do 3 miles once a week and just want to keep their motor rolling.

As density increases, it may well be possible to use generic power blocks within the housings at almost the original capacity, but without the super complex packaging.
 
1 - 20 of 51 Posts
Top