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Q210
ZE 50
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99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On Monday I drove from South West London to the Isle of Bute (about 450 miles) in our Renault Zoe ZE 50 Rapid Charge. Setting off at 10 am I thought I had left it far too late to catch the last 9 pm ferry from Wemyss Bay. I was gobsmacked to make the 8 pm ferry after two 45 minute charges and one 20 minute charge. In all, factoring in breaks I would have made to eat, walk the dog etc it probably took me an hour longer than I would have done it in an ICE and I was pretty conservative with my charging pattern going from 20% to 80% on the longer charges. My question is CCS charging seems to max out at the same rate as a 43KWh fast charger so is there any advantage in using CCS over the 43KWh fast chargers? Does anyone ever get the notional 50 KWh on a CCS?

By the way it was lucky I caught the 8 pm ferry as I had misread the timetable and the 9 pm ferry doesn't run on a Monday. So our mini Tesla Zoe saved me from a massive self-inflicted pilot error and a night on the quayside.
 

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Zoe Devotee
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9,381 Posts
On Monday I drove from South West London to the Isle of Bute (about 450 miles) in our Renault Zoe ZE 50 Rapid Charge. Setting off at 10 am I thought I had left it far too late to catch the last 9 pm ferry from Wemyss Bay. I was gobsmacked to make the 8 pm ferry after two 45 minute charges and one 20 minute charge. In all, factoring in breaks I would have made to eat, walk the dog etc it probably took me an hour longer than I would have done it in an ICE and I was pretty conservative with my charging pattern going from 20% to 80% on the longer charges. My question is CCS charging seems to max out at the same rate as a 43KWh fast charger so is there any advantage in using CCS over the 43KWh fast chargers? Does anyone ever get the notional 50 KWh on a CCS?

By the way it was lucky I caught the 8 pm ferry as I had misread the timetable and the 9 pm ferry doesn't run on a Monday. So our mini Tesla Zoe saved me from a massive self-inflicted pilot error and a night on the quayside.

Your car can only do 22kW on the AC rapids now, the ZE50 has the R motor not the Q motor. So yeah CCS makes more sense. Why Renault have problems extracting the full potential from CCS is probably down to heat and the fact the pack is AC cooled. (y)

Hope you enjoy your trip, and I also hope you took the 2 covid test we are recommending anyone who visits the islands takes. (y)
 

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Kia e-Niro 2 LR, Seat Mii
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581 Posts
Many cars can't charge at 50kW on a 50kW DC charger. In some cases a low battery voltage (e.g. 350V) means the charger hits its current limit before the power limit. The charging curve will be well below 50kW at high states of charge too.
For a Zoe, an obvious advantage of CCS is that you can use CCS-only chargers like Instavolt, or the new Gridserve chargers some of which are temporarily without AC charging points.
 

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Zoe Devotee
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9,381 Posts
Many cars can't charge at 50kW on a 50kW DC charger. In some cases a low battery voltage (e.g. 350V) means the charger hits its current limit before the power limit. The charging curve will be well below 50kW at high states of charge too.
For a Zoe, an obvious advantage of CCS is that you can use CCS-only chargers like Instavolt, or the new Gridserve chargers some of which are temporarily without AC charging points.
Indeed, I was "only" hitting 49kW from a medium low SOC on my MG this week on an Instavolt 50kW rapid. Had I been on a 125kW Instavolt I'd be getting closer to the 80kW that the car is rated (but not necessarily published) at.

Zoe is fairly well reported as peaking at 44kW and drops quick as the pack heats.
 

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Q210
ZE 50
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99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I was getting a pretty consistent 43-44Kwh between 20-80 per cent. I didn't realise that the ZE 50 rapid charge doesn't get 43 kWh off the faster AC chargers though and as yet I haven't been in a situation where I've needed it. Still very pleased with the car. Driving back from Scotland to London tomorrow. Let's see if the return leg goes as well.
 

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please know the difference between kW and kWh!!! kW is the power you charge with and kWh is the size of your battery...

ontopic: this is your charging curve:
 

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ID.4 1st edition (previously Mitsubishi outlander PHEV)
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494 Posts
please know the difference between kW and kWh!!! kW is the power you charge with and kWh is the size of your battery...
ok
a kW is a unit of power.
a kWh is a unit of energy... power by time.

To give a better way to understand this...
if your kettle has a 5kW element. this is how much power the element needs to produce the maximum heat.
So when you boil the kettle and it takes 6 minutes to boil you use 5kW x 0.1hours (6minutes is 1/10th an hour) = 0.5kWh of energy. (note your peak load in this example is 5kW about 20amps - so this isnt a real example just done for the math)

You tend to think of EVs, the batteries in terms of energy, ie kWh... how much can I store (big is longer range for a car);
and charge points in terms of kW, ie the max power is going into the car. (big is faster!)

So the real calculations you need to worry about are how quickly am I draining the battery and how quickly do I charge the battery...
you have a 77kWh battery and it has zero charge in it.
you charge at 50kW rapid charger, and it will take 77 divided by 50 hours to charge to make (assuming perfect charging curve of 100% all the time)
this means a little over 1.5 hours.
now if you charge at home, on a 7kW charger it will take 11 hours.

hope that helps clarify the point coasterfreak is making.
 

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Zoe Devotee
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43KWh fast chargers


I mean technically what the OP said isn't wrong. They output 43kW and will deliver 43kW in an hour so 43kWh potentially. ;) I generally only take issue when someone says I took 43kWh from a rapid for 20minutes. No.... you didn't! Or I charged my car and added 30kW. I take even bigger issues when so called Youtoob "influencers" give out this incorrect info in infographics and verbally.
 

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ID.4 1st edition (previously Mitsubishi outlander PHEV)
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494 Posts
43KWh fast chargers

I mean technically what the OP said isn't wrong.
Well they are!! because chargers are rated at their peak power not the energy over an hour. (for the reason both you and coasterfreak are saying)
you dont charge for exactly and hour and the delivery will change based upon the battery state. (and not all cars can charge at the max rate of the charge point).

If they called them 43kWh fast chargers then people will complain (and probably an advertising standards complaint) if they dont get 43kWh in one hour!!!
peak power is accurate. BUT I know what you are saying.
 

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Zoe Devotee
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9,381 Posts
Well they are!! because chargers are rated at their peak power not the energy over an hour. (for the reason both you and coasterfreak are saying)
you dont charge for exactly and hour and the delivery will change based upon the battery state. (and not all cars can charge at the max rate of the charge point).

If they called them 43kWh fast chargers then people will complain (and probably an advertising standards complaint) if they dont get 43kWh in one hour!!!
peak power is accurate. BUT I know what you are saying.
I suppose it depends on the car you're charging. Rock up at a 43kW (well a 50) at low SOC in a P100 Tesla and I'm sure it will pull 43kWh in 1 hour. ;)
 

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Q210
ZE 50
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99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Thanks for reminder of the KW versus KWh distinction. More a slip of the keyboard rather than anything else (it was late and I didn't double check my terms) and I think everyone knew what I was on about. My question got answered clearly so thanks, I had kind of missed the fact that the new car didn't take a 43KW AC fast charge any more. No real matter when it takes the CCS though. To be honest I wrote the post partly to double check whether the new Zoe still had 43KW charging capability and partly to detail that a long journey in a new Zoe was possible and not that big a deal. You see lots of posts from people anxious about taking trips a lot shorter than the one I did and I wanted to document one that had gone well.
 
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