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Discussion Starter #1
For the first time today I went to operate my charge timer. The plan was to enable an 80% charge. However, I can't seem to access this option, or possibly it's not there...

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Seen a few videos on YouTube on how to operate the timer and the menu layout seems very different from mine. Car is a 2016 24kWh.

Any ideas? Thanks :)
 

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I believe later Leafs did away with the 80%.

I suggest you work out how many kwh you need per week and divide that no. by 7. Then divide that no. by your charging rate, and that gives you the average no. of hours you need to charge per night. Set your charge timer to that.
 

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In late 2015 when they ditched the old style Carwings software and moved to the new ConnectEV platform they made several changes to the head unit. This included things like the DAB Radio, a slightly new UI, and the removal of the 80% Charge limit.

It wasn't considered necessary especially with the better battery chemistry on the later models.

Charging to 100% Is good because it helps the cell balancing process. The 80% limit actually caused problems with some earlier cars when they were ALWAYS only going to 80%. Just don't leave it sitting around for long periods (days) with a full battery. But otherwise don't worry about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I believe later Leafs did away with the 80%.

I suggest you work out how many kwh you need per week and divide that no. by 7. Then divide that no. by your charging rate, and that gives you the average no. of hours you need to charge per night. Set your charge timer to that.
Cheers for the reply :)

It’s a shame Nissan deleted this option from the software.

Sadly I don’t know how much kW I’m gonna need per week. My days vary from one to the other due to circumstances.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
In late 2015 when they ditched the old style Carwings software and moved to the new ConnectEV platform they made several changes to the head unit. This included things like the DAB Radio, a slightly new UI, and the removal of the 80% Charge limit.

It wasn't considered necessary especially with the better battery chemistry on the later models.

Charging to 100% Is good because it helps the cell balancing process. The 80% limit actually caused problems with some earlier cars when they were ALWAYS only going to 80%. Just don't leave it sitting around for long periods (days) with a full battery. But otherwise don't worry about it.
I thought it was considered bad to frequently charge to 100% and that 80% was preferred?

I certainly don’t leave the Leaf sitting around for long periods, it’s used every day and sees anywhere between 30-70 miles.
 

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I thought it was considered bad to frequently charge to 100% and that 80% was preferred?

I certainly don’t leave the Leaf sitting around for long periods, it’s used every day and sees anywhere between 30-70 miles.
Everyone will give you their own opinion which differs. But if you ask me I would say it's absolutely fine and using the top 20% definitely bears using the bottom 20% which you would likely be getting into with a 24kWh car and driving up to 70 miles, not starting with a full battery.

As long as you don't leave the battery sitting around for long periods at below 20 or over 80% It's unlikely you will see any significant difference in degradation. Especially with the newer chemistry batteries. The cell balancing benefit I mentioned above will also help keep the battery healthy, maximise your range, and prevent panic where your remaining range suddenly plummets at an alarming rate once you get down below around 25% due to the large voltage differences from cell to cell when running low.
 

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Cheers for the reply :)

It’s a shame Nissan deleted this option from the software.

Sadly I don’t know how much kW I’m gonna need per week. My days vary from one to the other due to circumstances.
Unless you know for sure that you aren't going to use it for a few days then just top it right up to the brim and get out there.

EV cars really do tend to put the EV back into Over Thinking It.

Just not necessarily in the same order.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
As above. If you need 30-70 miles every day, charge to 100%. Maybe less at the weekend?
Same applies at the weekend really. It's nice to have the convenience of a fully charged battery at one's disposal for the unexpected, should it arise.
 

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Everyone will give you their own opinion which differs. But if you ask me I would say it's absolutely fine and using the top 20% definitely bears using the bottom 20% which you would likely be getting into with a 24kWh car and driving up to 70 miles, not starting with a full battery.

As long as you don't leave the battery sitting around for long periods at below 20 or over 80% It's unlikely you will see any significant difference in degradation. Especially with the newer chemistry batteries. The cell balancing benefit I mentioned above will also help keep the battery healthy, maximise your range, and prevent panic where your remaining range suddenly plummets at an alarming rate once you get down below around 25% due to the large voltage differences from cell to cell when running low.
Yes, I have noticed if anything that the battery becomes steadier as it depletes in charge, where as the first 30% seems to disappear that bit quicker.
 

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Yes, I have noticed if anything that the battery becomes steadier as it depletes in charge, where as the first 30% seems to disappear that bit quicker.
Exactly the opposite of mine. It drops very steady and slow over the first 35% then it's a lottery.
 

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Set the end charge time to when you are leaving in the morning leave start time blank. If your departure time varies then its just a matter of changing one setting the day before.
 

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Exactly the opposite of mine. It drops very steady and slow over the first 35% then it's a lottery.
Moaning about your high SOH!

Have you run it down to turtle yet to see if you drive at 60 / 50 what's your biggest range?
 

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I thought it was considered bad to frequently charge to 100% and that 80% was preferred?

I certainly don’t leave the Leaf sitting around for long periods, it’s used every day and sees anywhere between 30-70 miles.
its what they expected to happen but in reality it didn't.
Bear in mind that on all these cars 100% isnt 100% and 0% isnt 0% the battery management systems always make sure there is an amount you cannot access.
So long as you dont leave your car parked for extended periods either very high or very low you should be fine. If you are going on holiday or intend to leave your car standing for a a fortnight or more, aim to park it at about 60% but dont sweat it too much if not possible.
 

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In late 2015 when they ditched the old style Carwings software and moved to the new ConnectEV platform they made several changes to the head unit. This included things like the DAB Radio, a slightly new UI, and the removal of the 80% Charge limit.

It wasn't considered necessary especially with the better battery chemistry on the later models.
Actually they made the change to increase the EPA rating of the car in the US as the EPA rating system forced them to quote the average range figure of 80% and 100% charge. By removing the 80% charge option they were able to quote the full 100% range figure. I'm afraid there was no good technical reason behind the change and the newer battery is no more resistant to increased degradation at 100% than any other Lithium Ion battery.
Charging to 100% Is good because it helps the cell balancing process. The 80% limit actually caused problems with some earlier cars when they were ALWAYS only going to 80%. Just don't leave it sitting around for long periods (days) with a full battery. But otherwise don't worry about it.
Sorry but this is nonsense. Degradation of the cells is more important than cell balance. Also with correct programming of the charging system it's possible to balance cell voltages at 80% as the voltage is still fairly close to the maximum cell voltage. So while the cells will not be balanced if you prematurely (manually) interrupt charging at 80% on a car which is trying to charge to 100%, there is no reason why the system couldn't be made to charge to 80% and still balance. If the old Leaf didn't do this, it's on Nissan.
 

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Everyone will give you their own opinion which differs. But if you ask me I would say it's absolutely fine and using the top 20% definitely bears using the bottom 20% which you would likely be getting into with a 24kWh car and driving up to 70 miles, not starting with a full battery.
Every EV driver who owns a car without a charge limiter may have their own opinion, and that's fine because everyone is entitled to an opinion whether right or wrong. ;)

While there may be debate among EV drivers, there is no debate in the battery industry about high SoC being maintained for long periods of time causing increased degradation in Lithium Ion batteries. It affects all of them and the only mitigating factors are temperature and time - keep the temperature of the cells down and the effects of high SoC are mitigated somewhat. (The other mitigation is keep the length of time down)
As long as you don't leave the battery sitting around for long periods at below 20 or over 80% It's unlikely you will see any significant difference in degradation. Especially with the newer chemistry batteries. The cell balancing benefit I mentioned above will also help keep the battery healthy, maximise your range, and prevent panic where your remaining range suddenly plummets at an alarming rate once you get down below around 25% due to the large voltage differences from cell to cell when running low.
An occasional charge to 100% (every few weeks) should be adequate to keep the cell balance good. Keep in mind that cells should not get significantly out of balance in the first place, (the current through the series string is identical, and parallel cell pairs naturally stay in balance with each other) certainly not within a few charge cycles. Cell balancing is to counter long term drift effects of very small imbalances that add up over weeks or months, not something that is going to happen over one or two charge cycles.

One thing I've noticed in Leaf Spy is that unlike most other EV's which only balance cells during charging, the Leaf appears to also balance when the car is on in ready mode near a high SoC, as the red and blue bars indicate cells where the balancer is turned on or off. I need to investigate further to see whether this is really happening or is an artefact of the way Leafspy queries the car.

As the balance resistors are such low power in the Leaf compared to some other EV's (thus very slow to balance) being able to touch up the balance while the car is on instead of charging does actually make sense, especially in a car that is usually rapid charged, as no useful balancing can happen during rapid charging.
 

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Set the end charge time to when you are leaving in the morning leave start time blank. If your departure time varies then its just a matter of changing one setting the day before.
As long as your leaving time is consistent, you could also set the charge end timer (only) to a time after your departure time, say an hour or two depending on your charging speed available. That way the car will be at ~80% when you leave no matter what charge you started at. It would probably be an idea to let the car charge to 100% once a week for balancing.

If you need 100% of your range, just set the charge time to your departure time. The last half an hour or so is just balancing so there is a bit of wiggle room if you're a bit earlier leaving one day you'll still be nearly at 100%. Delaying charging completion to the departure time minimises time spent at high SoC and reduces peak battery temperatures vs going on charge as soon as you get home in the evening.

If you wont be going anywhere on a Saturday or Sunday (or just a short run to the shops) and you still have a decent charge in the car (say 50-80%) consider just not plugging in that night.

Mine is a 30kWh but I arrived home on Friday night with 65% and about 70 miles range, I know I won't be going anywhere far on Saturday, at most a drive to the shops, maybe nowhere, so I've just left the car unplugged. I plan to go for a reasoably long drive on Sunday so on Saturday night I'll plug it in and let the charge timer charge it up to 100% early on Sunday morning for me.
 

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Sorry but this is nonsense. Degradation of the cells is more important than cell balance. Also with correct programming of the charging system it's possible to balance cell voltages at 80% as the voltage is still fairly close to the maximum cell voltage. So while the cells will not be balanced if you prematurely (manually) interrupt charging at 80% on a car which is trying to charge to 100%, there is no reason why the system couldn't be made to charge to 80% and still balance. If the old Leaf didn't do this, it's on Nissan.
When you charge to 100, it will keep flashing away to say its still charging at 100% for some time before it finally stops. If you charge to 80% you get a click as soon as it hits 80 and shuts off completely. Cell balancing doesn't occur at 80% even if you have a model old enough to stop charging at that point.

I've watched batteries become useless from being stuck going to 80% - driving 15 miles was enough to run it low. I had to do a number of full discharge and charge cycles to bring it back to life. It ultimately lost its first health bar at that point but was still able to get me just over 50 miles before the low battery warning.

I'm fully aware that batteries CAN balance at any point. I believe the likes of the iOns that we both had in the past used to take a couple of breaks from charging around the 50% mark for this. It's perfectly possible, and in some ways preferred. But it's not something that most of the newer EVs do until fully charged, including the LEAF.
 
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